Mr. Shahin, not only were you present at the 2014 initiations, but you also purchased alcohol and actively participated in hazing. All those present (all current UA sophomores) will agree and attest to this (other than Ernest, obviously).

It is really disappointing to read this column after realizing:

a. You were a member of the UA last cycle. You had a voice and chose not to use it. Please do not call the kettle black and expect to stand on higher ground.

b. Facts are being manipulated and misconstrued. Please tell the complete story as well as the whole truth when attempting to write an exposé. I am told that you participated in the email chain, yet I do not see your comments being plastered across the pages of the DP.

c. Comments out of context are powerful tools. I am very sympathetic towards those individuals named, discredited, and attacked in this column.

While I respect what you were attempting to do by writing this opinion column, I do not respect your methods or conclusions. Our names carry us through our lives, and you very well may have just tarnished a part of yours.

I find it very interesting how people can defend such “crude and unusual behavior.” If Shalin was at last year’s event then he is a hypocrite, but perhaps what is interesting is how certain individuals mentioned continued the behavior. Every dog has his day as they say but not for a consecutive year. I also mind you that after reading both of these columns, I have yet to see why Ernest @bananarama would not attest to Shalin being present. One must not act as if these individuals are united in their cause. If anything, Owens is a victim who wants to see it gone. Shalin, although said to be present this year wants to see them stop it as well? I’m not exactly clear but what I do know is that regardless of the motives and the bias, HAZING IS WRONG! THEY SHOULD KNOW BETTER! WHAT IF SOMEONE WOULD HAVE BEEN PSYCHOLOGICALLY, MENTALLY, OR PHYSICALLY HURT? Your name is how you carry it your damn self, not someone else. As much as Shalin is conducting this “tell all” of a column is the same way some of these alleged member should have stepped up themselves. At the end of the day, the real victims are the UA Class of 2014 and 2015, the didn’t deserve the disrespect. Someone should be held accountable.

I have a few questions:

a. what is your evidence for this? Bananarama’s statements? He’s also posting on Ernest’s column accusing him of making these statements over meal swipes. the only person who had disagreements with ernest over this was tyler ernst. one of the people named in this articles was tyler ernst. he stands to gain the most by making this accusation.

b. how does one misconstrue “let’s get them ‘hospitalize me’ drunk?” how are any of the things said here misconstrued if there are already freshmen coming forward saying they were hazed?

at least shahin is standing up to this type of behavior.

I’m a member of the UA. Last year, it was Cynthia Ip who purchased the alcohol, so I don’t know where that accusation is coming from or why she wasn’t mentioned. All of the emails quoted were single sentence emails sent from blackberries and iPhones and I don’t think they were misconstrued. @Sam, someone was affected- last year, a freshman passed out and, instead of calling for help, Jake Shuster took pictures of him passed out on the floor and emailed them out to the UA. Mo can be an ass (like almost all of the egos on the UA), but I actually agree with him on this one. As for Ernest, no matter how much he annoys anyone (and he is annoying), he still doesn’t deserve to be hazed.

Apologize? Are you kidding me? Involved or not, a group of individuals humiliates freshmen who don’t know better and all he wants is for them to apologize? The members who held this event need to leave the UA. Do the honorable thing and resign. Or, you know, hide behind a wall of anonymity and ask for confidentiality after everyone knows you did it. Either way, you won’t be able to represent anyone. You certainly don’t represent me. To quote you campaign, Tyler and Faye, hazing freshmen is not “my way.”

Mo, if you had actually been invited to the initiation (as you desperately tried to be), I doubt you’d be making any fuss at all. You weren’t re-elected to the UA because everyone hates you, so now you’re taking it out on those you so desperately wish to be.

Please graduate already, you fifth-year senior, and let the student leaders get back to doing their jobs. Now they’ll have to waste their time dealing with you instead of tackling real issues, all because you’re jealous of the cool kids club. Please graduate so we can finally be rid of the annoying thorn in everyone’s side that no one wants at meetings.

The fun thing about watching a Penn student organization self-destruct is that, because they’re all so entitled, avaricious, and egocentric, they’d happily trample their own mothers in the rush to throw each other under the bus.

Future leaders of the nation, right here.

Tyler,
Does you feel better about abusing freshmen now that you’ve said that? It’s mighty big of you to make these posts without putting your name next to them. It’s even bigger of you to try to shift the conversation from about how you crossed moral and legal bounds to about how some kid needs to graduate. Kudos.
Please stop being a control freak and trying to run everyone’s lives. There are freshmen and sophomores already saying they were hazed. It’s not just some random person out to get revenge for not being “cool” by your idiotic standards.
And btw, your argument makes no sense. “let the student leaders get back to doing their jobs?” By this, you mean hazing? Or what exactly were you doing that is so important you can’t be nuisance by complaints that you attacked these students?
I’m sorry that you’re inconvenienced about being called out for your criminal activity. You belong in a jail cell, not representing students to the administration. Why don’t you just get your vindictive personality out of student government? I’m sick of you and I hate the fact that I can’t stand up to you in real life because of how you would react. At least this kid has enough balls to stand up to you.
FYI, everyone can see the time stamps on the first two posts and it doesn’t take a genius to see that the members of the UA board coordinated them.

WHOA No one has pointed out that Mo compares UA hazing (bad) to MGC hazing (good). Anyone who has pledged an MGC frat or sorority knows that they make UA’s hazing look like kiddie hour. He is comparing the PRIVATE correspondences of UA members to the PUBLIC comments of the MGC who MUST say there is no hazing.

Not to mention the fact that Mo, someone who has had an ax to grind with the UA for years, has now publicly accused UA members of hazing and linked their name to something like this. There are ways to deal with hazing, but permanently damaging the reputations of current UA members is revenge rather than looking out for future UA members.

I would just like to point out that graduate already referred to the UA as ‘the cool kids club.’ Just sayin’

Point taken. The comparison made may not be a fair one. I don’t know enough about MGC to speak about whether or not they haze, or how. If he knows MGC hazing is that bad, he should not have made that comparison.

That said, I don’t have a problem with him putting students’ names up if they actually did this. If the column’s statements are true (and I’m led to believe they are because of the comments of the freshmen and sophomore who came forward), then I think they deserve to face the consequences of their actions. And yes, normally, this sort of thing should be dealt with privately but as UA members, their work is in a public forum. And, if they are going to say they are reforming alcohol policies ON BEHALF OF STUDENTS they should be held to a higher standard than normal. And they need to answer to those students who they say they are working for.

ua kids are all full of themselves in general. maybe if you all got laid once in a while you wouldn’t need to haze each other and then bitch about it at 2-4 in the morning on a public website.

did anyone see the email tyler sent out to the ua after this was printed? i just got a copy ROFL

My impression of UA hazing, while it may have gotten out of hand recently, has in the past been a referential nod to actual hazing, which lasts far longer than one drunken night. MGC hazing is months long, done in secret, and hardly a model for any organization. I would be personally astounded if Mo didn’t realize the reality of this.

As far as mentioning students by name, he is calling them out not only for bad behavior, but for breaking the law- something that could have long-standing repercussions for the UA members, bringing them trouble not only now but in the future. This is not a police blotter, there is no official record of them committing the crimes Mo is cavalierly accusing them of breaking. Not to mention that the crime of providing alcohol to a minor is one that many Penn students commit, time after time. I am not condoning the climate on campus in regards to alcohol, but if we are going to accuse UA of supplying alcohol to minors, we should remember that entire fraternities- through their membership dues- are committing that crime every weekend.

Finally, like I said before, Mo is simply out for revenge on anyone who has done him wrong- I hope everyone remembers the shenanigans he pulled last year against Ryan Houston, the UA’s treasurer, attempting to get him impeached through confusing freshman to sign a petition with baseless accusations. Nothing could make me believe that Mo is doing this out of interest for other student’s safety.

Can we all take a step back and realize that what we’re complaining about is college kids drinking? GOD FORBID!!!!!!!!!!! THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENED BEFORE!!!!!!!!!!!! It’s all in good fun. What the UA does for initiation is not hazing. If you want to see hazing, you should pledge a fraternity at a Southern School. If you really want to compare UA initiation to that, then its on you. And saying Tyler belongs in jail? Should he get there, I’d hope that he would make some room because he’s going to be joined by every fraternity member (myself included). We are college kids. Stop complaining about things that happen at every college in the country. Enjoy yourselves, and stop worrying about what other people are doing behind closed doors

Like I said, if he knew about it and knowingly went to MGC for a statement, then he was wrong. But I don’t know what MGC does or how much he knows about it so I’m not in a position to judge. From my point of view, I’d actually think it was a stupid move on his part to go them if he knew their hazing was worse than the UA. It would make more sense to go to an organization he thought doesn’t haze and ask them to make a similar statement. Unless you know for a fact that he has intimate knowledge of MGC’s practices or is involved with the organization in some way, I don’t think you’re really in a place to judge either.

Additionally, you seem to be misreading the article- the issue here isn’t drinking (underage or not). The issue is hazing. And that’s a much bigger issue and something that I personally feel needs to be addressed, in some way. Mo seems to be willing to go public with what goes on in the UA and while I don’t think it’s a right call for everything that goes on, when people are doing something on behalf of students, they should be held accountable to those students. The line between privacy and accountability gets gray in this area and he chose to go public with this information. Would I have done the same thing? Probably not. But I’m also not in his shoes and people choose to address things in different ways. I personally can’t sit here, judge him and accuse him of doing this for revenge. I’d be a hypocrite for criticizing him in a public forum for publicly calling individual people out. At the very least he attached his name to his article.

Finally, if the only thing you have against him is Ryan Houston’s impeachment, I don’t think it was just freshmen. Over a third of the UA signed the petition at that time including Tyler Ernst, who was found out to have signed the petition. If the two of them were in agreement then, I don’t think that’s something you can use against either one of them without faulting the other one too. It just makes it into an irrelevant issue, similar to where people are saying “Ernest is doing this because of the meal swipes.”

I think you should hold off on judging people- that applies to Mo, Tyler, and Ernest.

Yes! So true. Especially gratifying with an organization as useless as the UA. Now that they don’t do free NYT, their duties are limited to shuttles, sending petitions to Gutmann that no one asked them to sign, and creating marketing campaigns to try to justify their existence.

A few things –

!. Mo has unsuccessfully attempted to involve himself in several student groups on campus. He has managed to alienate himself from every. single. one. Not only that, he is solely responsible for the self-destruction of one such group that once-upon-a-time interacted with the UA, Ivy Council. Essentially, anything King Mo touches turns to dirt.
2. Mo is a vindictive, conniving individual. Anyone with any experience dealing with him has probably had some exposure to this. (does this guy even have any friends?)
3. UA hazing is about as safe as it gets. If people don’t want to drink, they don’t drink. End of story. That is fully disclosed in the beginning of the process. Further, members can opt-out of the process altogether with no penalty. (Though you miss out on the killer dance party afterward!)
4. Mo was present at last year’s UA initiation and had a blast yelling at freshmen. He was actually the loudest and most intimidating one of the group. Is this just an example of selective memory or is Mo deliberately hiding this information? I’m quite curious.
5. Discussions of the legitimacy of the UA aside, whatever. They’re a fine bunch of idealistic kids. Don’t ruin the fun for them while they still think they have an opportunity to make a difference.
5. Finally, to Mo: grow up and find a new organization to drive into the ground. Leave the UA alone. Thanks.

@really – for the sake of the internet please repost email

1. Really? Ivy Council has been having issues with the UA for the past 5 years- long before he got involved.

2. This just sounds like you don’t like him and have a vendetta. He actually seems like a pretty nice guy to me.

3. The freshman who came forward doesn’t feel this way. Neither does the sophomore who came forward. The emails sent by UA exec don’t make your case either.

4. Not everyone was comfortable with the hazing last year. I didn’t go last year so I can’t tell you whether he was there or how loud he was, but I did hear him voice concerns both before and after the event. I don’t think this is just him saying things to make a mess because I know for a fact that he complained before in a different venue and just wasn’t heard.

5. @Ex-Ua, do you mind providing us with your name? Or do you prefer to attack people only when you know they can’t say anything back to you? We get the point. You don’t like this article. Grow up and move on. All you’re doing falls under the category of character assassination. If you have a defense for your actions, provide it. If not, trying to shift the story by painting the person who came out with the truth as as asshole just makes you look mean and nasty.

6. Finally, to Tyler/Tyler’s friends/UA exec: Also, learn to count. The fact that you wrote two number-fives shows how quickly you wrote this and how angry you are. Chill the fuck out.

Those students hazing and then saying they want to reform alcohol policy on behalf of students (namely, Tyler, Jake, and Faye) are definitely hypocrites. They have no business doing anything on behalf of anyone anymore. I disagree with Mo. An apology is not enough. This UA board just needs to RESIGN. They’re really just done at this point. If Mo is doing this for selfish reasons, he’s a hypocrite too. If not, he’s not a hypocrite.

Hypocrisies aside, UA hazing is not that bad compared to other organizations? That’s really not for any of us to judge. The fact that there is hazing (and nobody has denied that yet) means this is something that needs to be addressed. There are emails, a freshman who went through it this year, a sophomore who went through it last year, and a senior who was privy to this planning last year and this year. Unless you’re going to fault ALL of them, you just can’t get around the problem that hazing occurred. And saying that other groups do it too is no excuse to do it yourself. At the end of the day, there are victims here. There are freshmen who run for student government without knowing what they’re getting into and end up getting forced to drink, tied to a chair, and locked in a closet.

And to all of the commenter’s, stop attacking ad hominem and then acting as if you’re somehow better than them. If you want to respond to a statement made by Mo or the UA board, do it. Otherwise, you’re just wasting your own time with your words.

What a bunch of trolls. He said she said, he did she did blah blah. No evidence. One of you knuckleheads is going to get sued for libel. What a giant circle jerk.

The fact that this flame war was published by the DP is no surprise because they have no journalistic standards. Shame on you DP.

OCCUPY THE UA!!! 0.003% of the student body controls over 990% of the voice to the administration! #OCCUPY

also @pathetic, i thought the proof was the emails and the statement from the freshman?

*over 90%

BREAKING NEWS: Tyler Ernst just updated his Facebook status to “is spending Saturday night rewriting alcohol policy. Kind of the opposite of what I did last night, but still pretty awesome.”

It’s also kind of the opposite of what you did when you hazed those freshmen two years in a row, Tyler. Way to rub it in that you’re still in power. The audacity you have to make that statement is astounding. Instead of owning up to your actions, you brag about how you’re still rewriting alcohol policy despite these students coming forward? I thought about calling you a dictator and a piece of shit, but either of those would be elevating you to a higher status than what you truly are.

I hope the hammer comes down hard on you when it’s time for Penn to coordinate an official response.