What a great Sprints performance - 14th in the HV8, 9th in the 2HV, and DFL for the Frosh! How does Fred spin this? The next boat launched should have Fred on it leaving town!

Well if they do go to IRA's, Fred will save on airfare back to wherever he came from. [QUOTE id="b6af3f96-854f-4e1f-8ccd-74318d0f1437"]Fred, do the right thing - gracefully leave town. This experiment hasn't worked. During your tenure Columbia, MIT, George Washington and Dartmouth have all left you in their wake. It isn't the athletes, it is the coaching. Time to clean house in the boathouse. You are primarily judged by Mary and Bilsky on your fundraising ability, not your coaching ability. By all accounts that is suffering as well, so why not just move along, the West Coast beckons. Save further embarrassment, skip the IRAs. Schadenfreude .[/QUOTE]

The west coast crews don't need a coach like Honey to slow them down. After evaluating his tenure at Penn I doubt that Fred could get a job coaching at the high school level. Despite the buildup when he came in, he can't recruit against the big boys and he didn't get anything out of this year's senior class, who won the sprints as freshmen. This year's freshmen are the worst in the EARC, is that good recruiting? Fred hasn't figured out that moral victories don't count for much (at least they never used to with the Penn rowing establishment). He has had his time and has kicked the program to depths NEVER seen at this fine institution. They ought to save their money and cancel their trip to the IRAs. They need the money to pay for all the shirts that were given away this year

Fred, do the right thing - gracefully leave town. This experiment hasn't worked. During your tenure Columbia, MIT, George Washington and Dartmouth have all left you in their wake. It isn't the athletes, it is the coaching. Time to clean house in the boathouse. You are primarily judged by Mary and Bilsky on your fundraising ability, not your coaching ability. By all accounts that is suffering as well, so why not just move along, the West Coast beckons. Save further embarrassment, skip the IRAs. Schadenfreude .

This years freshman came in first in the 3rd level final. They were not the worst, 5 crews were worse than them. All 3 boats improved from last year. The varsity improved from 16th to 14th, the 2v went from 16th to 9th, and the frosh went from 17th to 13th. Things are going in the right direction. Is Penn rowing at the same level it used to be at? No of course not, but it's starting to turn around.

Am I taking crazy pills? It's all the same song and dance! I mean come on, seriously. Since when has boasting a strong finish the trucks close to even a "moral victory"!! For the love of all things that are holy. Fred, win a race or leave my boathouse immediately! Like NOW! Jeez!! Honestly, this is pathetic. You couldn't have possibly done worse than last year. I know it's mathematically possible, but unless Penn's team was composed solely of walk-ons who have a severe phobia of water, it is not mentally comprehendible. This year's coaching staff is so out! Let's move on to a style more fitting of and Ivy League Schools oldest inter-collegiate sport, WINNING! Not coming in last or beating a few crews, but winning. Come on winning is so in for next year. Until now I am going to let the smooth beats calm me down. Haaaappyyyy! Haaaappy! Happy! Hahaha! [QUOTE id="3b04ef6a-71fc-406d-b3f9-c464e2a28492"]This years freshman came in first in the 3rd level final. They were not the worst, 5 crews were worse than them. All 3 boats improved from last year. The varsity improved from 16th to 14th, the 2v went from 16th to 9th, and the frosh went from 17th to 13th. Things are going in the right direction. Is Penn rowing at the same level it used to be at? No of course not, but it's starting to turn around.[/QUOTE]

Actually the Frosh finished 14th, as there were 7 boats in the Petite finals for some reason You may find these results an "improvement", but many of us find them disgraceful. The program may be turning around, but the question is whether the program sinks before it moves forward. The University has no qualms about asking for money to support the program each year, and this is the result? This coach is obviously not capable of recruiting or coaching. I can only hope that he received a 3 year contract which will not be renewed. There was a day when a sucessful season was determined by whether the team won the Sprints or IRA, not whether they qualified for the petite finals. Fred has had 3 years to turn the program around. He has failed. Judging by the results of the freshman team during his tenure, the cupboard appears to be bare going forward too. From this vantage point we are probably a long way from seeing the Varsity compete for a spot in the Grand Final, much less be in a favored position to win a title Somebody get Willie to back up the U-Haul to move this circus act out of town! [QUOTE id="3b04ef6a-71fc-406d-b3f9-c464e2a28492"]This years freshman came in first in the 3rd level final. They were not the worst, 5 crews were worse than them. All 3 boats improved from last year. The varsity improved from 16th to 14th, the 2v went from 16th to 9th, and the frosh went from 17th to 13th. Things are going in the right direction. Is Penn rowing at the same level it used to be at? No of course not, but it's starting to turn around.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE id="3b04ef6a-71fc-406d-b3f9-c464e2a28492"]This years freshman came in first in the 3rd level final. They were not the worst, 5 crews were worse than them. All 3 boats improved from last year. The varsity improved from 16th to 14th, the 2v went from 16th to 9th, and the frosh went from 17th to 13th. Things are going in the right direction. Is Penn rowing at the same level it used to be at? No of course not, but it's starting to turn around.[/QUOTE] Please, how can you be so naive. Mucking about in the trucks year after year is not improving. Improvement is MIT going from last in the trucks to the last in the petits. BU going from 11th to 6th is imrovement. I will guarantee that Princeton and Yale will be back in the mix next year. Under this coach, Penn will still be stuck in the trucks. The ONLY solution is to clean house, the experiment was a failure from day 1 when he lost (or never gained) the confidence of the best oarsmen in the program. His approach was flawed then and obviously hasn't gotten any better. Be gone.

It's been many years since I was employed to keep the boathouse clean and the grass mowed, but I would come out of retirement to help "clean house" in this case. Let me know when I can come over to the boathouse with my lawn mower and push broom! After we clean up boathouse row, maybe we can stop on campus and do some cleaning in the AD's office.....looks like that location needs a good sweeping too!

What has been permitted to happen to this once truly storied National program borders on criminal! I am with every poster who pointed out how pathetically low the bar and expectations have been set. Both Men's and Women's Tennis were powerhouses two short years ago, and now they too, along with Basketball have hit bottom. Are all these isolated events, or do they have a common denominator? It is past time for Athletic Director Steve Bilsky to be held accountable for the calamitous state of Penn sports, and to have the grace to step down! If not, the responsibility for righting this mess can only go higher up the chain. Do President Gutmann and the Trustees condone this sorry state of mediocrity? What ever happened to the "Penn Compact" - the part where "...Penn would rise from excellence to eminence"? What sport, what program, what field, where? EN

I understand and completely agree with the discontent of the absolutely abysmal rowing performances from both the lights and heavies; however, I do not understand messages from people like The Ghost of Ted Nash. For people who take the time to write such comments, alleging to have information about "conspiracy theories" and the like, why not provide names or solid information to prove their point? If you claim to know the history and the players involved, why not elaborate? If you shine a light directly on these "shadow figures" will they not change or disappear altogether?

[QUOTE id="4be8f893-0684-4225-8b39-530dd5d51e43"]I understand and completely agree with the discontent of the absolutely abysmal rowing performances from both the lights and heavies; however, I do not understand messages from people like The Ghost of Ted Nash. For people who take the time to write such comments, alleging to have information about "conspiracy theories" and the like, why not provide names or solid information to prove their point? If you claim to know the history and the players involved, why not elaborate? If you shine a light directly on these "shadow figures" will they not change or disappear altogether?[/QUOTE] Fatrower - I read Ghost of Ted Nash's comments as the lament of an alumnus rower from the Joe Burke Ted Nash Crew glory days. You indicated your agreement with the general discontent others have expressed, and I'm interested to know what you found particularly bothersome or inaccurate in his remarks: 1) Wasn't Stan Bergman unceremoniously dumped? 2) Aren't there crew alumns/ financial supporters calling the shots? 3) Isn't it time for the present coach to "...pursue other opportunities" or "...spend more time with the family"? 4) Will the current coach be unceremoniously dumped? My issue is not with his observations, which ring too painfully true. Rather it was his using the expression "conspiracy theory" which seems more a non-sequitor and evidence of his frustrated and passionate indignation. But it doesn't add to or detract from the accuracy of his observations. EN

Fatty This dialogue seems to be an annual event. It is simple - Some rich guys who like to donate to the program decided the program needed a coaching change. The "Friends of Rowing" approach Bilsky with a bag of cash. Bilsky takes the money and hires the coach these ignorant fools wanted to run the program. Bilsky gets his money, he could care less about the rowing program, and the deep pocketed alumns get their control. These guys then go around proudly telling everyone else how Fred will improve the program. Fast forward 3 years and these "Friends" have gone silent. Peterson the president and his crew on the board have nothing to say now. The program is decimated, as they find they hired a guy whose goal is to be 9th place or better. That kind of leadership is a big reason why the program doesn't win, or even stay competitive. If you look in the DP archives from May last year you will pretty much hear the same story. The difference this year is that no one is defending Fred anymore. Sure, the Ghost mentions a conspiracy, probably because there is a lot of backroom dealing going on. The players, if you care to know, are easily found. Start with the leadership of the Friends of Rowing organization,and then follow the money to see who is paying the endowment of the coaching position. Those are your leading actors in this tragedy, although I am sure none of them will stand up and say that hiring Fred was a good idea or their idea. The evidence is there if you really want to find it. LHL [QUOTE id="4be8f893-0684-4225-8b39-530dd5d51e43"]I understand and completely agree with the discontent of the absolutely abysmal rowing performances from both the lights and heavies; however, I do not understand messages from people like The Ghost of Ted Nash. For people who take the time to write such comments, alleging to have information about "conspiracy theories" and the like, why not provide names or solid information to prove their point? If you claim to know the history and the players involved, why not elaborate? If you shine a light directly on these "shadow figures" will they not change or disappear altogether?[/QUOTE]

Ah, if only we were at a level of mediocrity! The problem here is Bilsky and his minnions and how the athletic programs are run. Previous ADs had their faults, but they had some pride in the sports programs they were charged to oversee. Today, th eobject is to bring in $$. The Penn rowing program has been hijacked by a relatively small group of "friends" who basically handpicked the current coach in exchange for $$ to "endow" the coaching position. Unfortunately, these shadow figures had no idea who to bring in as a coach, and selected an individual with a great rowing resume but a very unimpressive coaching record. The results speak for themselves. However, Bilsky will never make a coaching change, it will be the money men in the shadows who will ultimately call the shot. Honebein has followed a list of coaching legends - Burke, Nash, Bergman. He has the distinction of putting together the worst three year record of any Penn rowing coach in history. i have seen the good and the bad during my years as a rower and a supporter o fPenn Crew. This is as bad as I have seen. However, I can't be sure this is the rock bottom. The end of the Honebein era will come when the "supporters" who put him there get too embarassed to face their pals from Harvard and Brown, and then tell Bilsky to get rid of Honebein or the money stops flowing. Given the disgraceful way that they dumped Stan Bergman, I expect the Honebein termination to be handled in the same classless manner. Unfortunately for Fred, there will be no tears as a result of his departure, only hope. And to those of you who think that this is a wild conspiracy theory, you haven't been watching this program like I have. I know the history and the players involved. Watch and learn.

[QUOTE id="4be8f893-0684-4225-8b39-530dd5d51e43"]I understand and completely agree with the discontent of the absolutely abysmal rowing performances from both the lights and heavies; however, I do not understand messages from people like The Ghost of Ted Nash. For people who take the time to write such comments, alleging to have information about "conspiracy theories" and the like, why not provide names or solid information to prove their point? If you claim to know the history and the players involved, why not elaborate? If you shine a light directly on these "shadow figures" will they not change or disappear altogether?[/QUOTE] Hopeful Alumnus - Amen on all counts! I'm not familiar with your reference "row2k" or for that matter other forums. Clarifications and suggestions would be most appreciated. EN FOR THE SITE MANAGER - Please keep the external counter current.

Row2k.com is pretty much the standard rowing website. They host forums, have daily updates on all levels of rowing, they have race schedules and results. Most rowers read this website. It could be a good place to air our grievances with the current administration. Could be a useful tool. [QUOTE id="4be8f893-0684-4225-8b39-530dd5d51e43"]I understand and completely agree with the discontent of the absolutely abysmal rowing performances from both the lights and heavies; however, I do not understand messages from people like The Ghost of Ted Nash. For people who take the time to write such comments, alleging to have information about "conspiracy theories" and the like, why not provide names or solid information to prove their point? If you claim to know the history and the players involved, why not elaborate? If you shine a light directly on these "shadow figures" will they not change or disappear altogether?[/QUOTE]

Thanks, Hopeful Alumnus - It should be made clear that such postings are not directed at crew members personally, or intended to discourage them. EN

Hopeful Alumnus - Row2K.com seems a great site, but aren't there any Penn sites that could have the same effect? I ask only because as much as I abhor the damage to the rowing program and to all Penn sports by the current administration, my preference would be to keep it in house, if possible. Thoughts from any interested party? EN

Wow! Hopefully Steve Bilsky and the "Friends" get the memo. Fred is a bad rowing coach. He may be a good friend, fantastic rower, or a terrific curler, but a rowing coach, he is not. These comments have little clout without publicity. Right now it seems to be a small group of people reading and writing these comments, so could the people that obviously do care do something about it. If we make other people aware, we may be able to move forward. May I suggest some of these comments hit row2k or other forums that some other Alumni may be reading. Let's go public with the atrocity that is the current state of our beloved program. We could try faxing the AD, his number can be found in the directory on Penn's home page. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. [QUOTE id="4be8f893-0684-4225-8b39-530dd5d51e43"]I understand and completely agree with the discontent of the absolutely abysmal rowing performances from both the lights and heavies; however, I do not understand messages from people like The Ghost of Ted Nash. For people who take the time to write such comments, alleging to have information about "conspiracy theories" and the like, why not provide names or solid information to prove their point? If you claim to know the history and the players involved, why not elaborate? If you shine a light directly on these "shadow figures" will they not change or disappear altogether?[/QUOTE]

Wow, given the lack of coverage by the DP this year I thought the Men's rowing program at Penn was disbanded. After checking the Penn Athletics website and seeing the results this year, maybe the athletic department should have pulled the plug. Another year of double digit losses, with the program led by a coach way over his head. Three years and only 1 cup race win over that time. Looks like another 3rd level final appearance at the Sprints. This is progress? When do the Fiends of Rowing get on and have Freddy fired?

Thanks, Sarah. I was afraid heavyweight rowing had been dropped to club status. Is this the first coverage this year for Penn's oldest intercollegiate sport? Jim Steele '71

Here ya go big Fred. I found some great deals here. Seeing as you are a Neanderthalic lumberjack, I found some steals to Portland and Bellingham straight from IRA's. Don't worry about your stuff here in Philadelphia, I'm sure the Friends of Penn Rowing will have no problem them shipping it to you. https://www.orbitz.com/Secure/ViewFlightInformation?gcid=C11287x059&WT.mc;_ev=click&WT.mc;_id=e71&retrieveParams;=true&z;=fdaa&r;=29&z;=fdab&r;=2a&lastPage;=interstitial https://www.orbitz.com/Secure/ViewFlightInformation?gcid=C11287x059&WT.mc;_ev=click&WT.mc;_id=e71&retrieveParams;=true&z;=4c8d&r;=4f&z;=4c8e&r;=4g&lastPage;=interstitial Shucks, I'll even let your kid fly for free. Bye, and have a nice flight.

Hey there big Fred. I have found some steals to fly you and your family back to wherever you came from. Seeing that you are a Neanderthalic lumberjack, I looked into some flights to Portland and Bellingham straight from the IRA course. https://www.orbitz.com/Secure/ViewFlightInformation?gcid=C11287x059&WT.mc;_ev=click&WT.mc;_id=e71&retrieveParams;=true&z;=5993&r;=6m&z;=5994&r;=6n&lastPage;=interstitial https://www.orbitz.com/Secure/ViewFlightInformation?gcid=C11287x059&WT.mc;_ev=click&WT.mc;_id=e71&retrieveParams;=true&z;=f349&r;=8t&z;=f34a&r;=8u&lastPage;=interstitial Shucks, I'll even let your kid fly for free, as long as you promise never to step foot on the East Coast again. Don't worry about your stuff in Philly, the Friends of Penn Rowing will surely ship it to you. Think of it as a going away present. Ta ta!

Never in my years of being involved with Penn Crew did I ever believe the program would become irrelevant. The tennis program has received more coverage from the DP than all of the rowing programs combined. Perhaps this is a blessing in disguise, as the Men's program has had nothing positive to report. The coach is back to spinning about moral victories, rowing well for 1000 meters, etc. Does it matter that one hangs in there for half a race, only to be demolished the final thousand? Does the coach believe that his rowers and the alums that know anything about rowing are buying his story? I would guess that even those misguided "money men" who strong armed Bilsky into hiring this coach are probably waking up to reality. This program has never been in worse shape. It is tim eagain to clean house!

Hey there Freddy ol' boy. Will you be flying back to Washington straight from IRA's or are you coming back to Philly first? It's way cheaper to fly from Cali. Let me know if I can help you with some deals.