The Daily Pennsylvanian :: Penn not included in Princeton Review 'dream schools'

Despite receiving almost 23,000 applications and attracting students from all around the world, Penn is still not a "dream school" - at least according to The Princeton Review.

Although Penn did not make the company's "Dream Colleges" list from its "Colleges Hopes and Worries Survey," administrators and college consultants say the rankings will not affect Penn's reputation.

Dean of Admissions Eric Furda conceded that "of course we want to be on this list and lists like these," but noted that ranking is not everything.

"Ultimately, a dream school is whatever school suits the student best," he said. "We want to communicate to the students we've accepted that we're the school for them, and I don't think this list is going to affect their decision."

He noted that making a list such as this one is often about more than just name recognition - in this case, Furda said he thinks location played a key role.

"Schools like Stanford, NYU and Columbia are known for their location as much as their school. We need to fight hard to let people know that Philadelphia is a great place as well," he said, pointing out that Dartmouth College - an Ivy in a more rural area - did not make the list either.

College consultants agree that being left off of a dream schools list is unlikely to damage Penn's reputation.

Jeffrey Durso-Finley, director of college counseling at the Lawrenceville School, wrote in an e-mail that he considers these rankings "useless."

In fact, "they say more about population density (see: the California schools) and past reputation (there are schools on the list which have lousy undergraduate educations) versus institutional quality," he wrote.

Michael Chimes, director of college guidance at the Gill St. Bernard's School in New Jersey, made a similar assessment, calling the list "not especially important."

He considered it "quite odd for a university to aspire to be on the list" because the ranking could come from any number of different factors - anything from reputation to athletic prowess.

"What really matters," said Chimes, "is each individual's college hopes, not a generic list that reflects the impressions of thousands of people."

Both agreed with Furda's statement that this particular Princeton Review survey is unlikely to affect where students choose to go to school.

As Durso-Finley pointed out, lists "do not play a role in student-matriculation patterns or institutional recruitment and do not come up in conversation in any normal counseling relationship."

Comments (11)

Penn was most student's second or third choice. 95% of Penn students applied to Harvard and didn't get in. Thats why its not on the list of dream schools.

It's okay. Princeton was not listed as a dream school in the Penn review.

I think that the Dean of Admissions is correct. I think it is the location. When newspapers around the country refer to Philadelphia as "Killadelphia" due to the crime rate and safety concerns, it's no wonder Penn is not included in the list. I know parents whose top-notch children did not apply to Penn or accepted admission elsewhere solely because of the location and the fear regarding their children's safety. When these conditions change for the better, Penn WILL be included because in every other respect, it's one of the best!

Philadelphia's reputation for being dangerous has detracted many students from applying to Penn. Similar disadvantages are also faced by Johns Hopkins and UChicago. Having said that, I'm surprised that the University of Southern California is listed as a "dream school". Although USC has many good programs, the area around it is just as ghetto as West or North Philly. Palo Alto (Stanford's city) is pleasant but sprawling and prohibitively expensive...Ithaca, Ann Arbor, and Chapel Hill are far more friendly to college students.

[QUOTE id="002a4696-962f-4e00-bf62-4c3ae754f092"]Penn was most student's second or third choice. 95% of Penn students applied to Harvard and didn't get in. Thats why its not on the list of dream schools.[/QUOTE] Not true at all, Grinch. Don't kiss up to Harvard. Penn is truly one of the best all-around undergraduate schools here. Like other posts here, it's the city location that may undermine the school's true value.

THIS is the ranking that counts far more than people think: http://www.epodunk.com/top10/colleges/index.html

Well - Penn was my daughter's dream school. As soon as she stepped on campus during a college tour we took her on, she wanted to go to Penn, she was in a dream......and she has been since she applied early decision, got in and has loved every minute there.......

This is one of the most stupid and useless lists I've seen in a while. It has no methodology or purpose whatsoever. Thanks, Princeton Review. We won't be buying your insightful publications.

Wow, this college ranking is stupid even by the woefully low standards of college rankings.

This is a ridiculous ranking. I'd like to know how the Princeton Review calculated and ranked schools as "dream schools" in the first place.

I would like to know which institutions on the list have lousy undergraduate programs. These are all wonderful universities, with great faculty, accessible and ample research opportunities, and top programs in many respective fields of study. It is precisely that - a list based on opinions of students across the nation who are not looking for one sole thing or another in their dream college. It is not something to get defensive over because Penn is still one of the greatest universities in the world. I just find it slightly off-handed when the article discusses "athletic prowess" as an incentive for people to apply to a certain school. This may be true, but it does not detract from the quality of the university either.

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