It's quite obvious Cria that you have a personal problem with everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion and you also harbor a lot of anger toward students with children. You should work that out somewhere else. You're certainly not helping your plight here by talking about "human spawn" which I imagine one day you too will have. You're right, I don't know you. All I know of you is your opinion on this matter. I based my comment on that. Kudos to Penndesign student re: "community" at Penn. A school is a community and we all pay for things we may not individually choose to pay for, but it is for the good of the community that we do so.

Former Penn student, you don't know me at all so shut up. I do have compassion for people that make responsible choices. I am 'grown up', probably more than you'll ever be. I pay my own bills and my own tuition, and therefore realize the burden of financial responsibility. My boyfriend and I could be stupid. I could get pregnant if I wanted to; however I choose not to because I know I can't afford to support someone else. Penndesign student, here's the awesome thing about your plight- you knew what you were getting into WHEN you enrolled. By signing that form and sending your deposit, you understood full well that you'd be forced to pay for the Pottruck membership (as all UNDERGRADS as well are forced to do), the housing maintenance (as all UNDERGRADS as well are forced to do), etc. etc. BTW, facilities like Pottruck are actually good for the student body as a whole, because healthier people do better at their work, and hey, I hear that working out also gives people a similar effect to having sex, maybe all those students with babies should have spent more time in Pottruck than with their SO's LMFAO... It's completely unfair and stupid to impose the cost of someone else's mistakes, and yes, mistakes is what they are when you get pregnant and can't afford to take care of them, on the student body as a whole. You can get free condoms in like, 8591831 places on campus. I don't even know why I'm posting this. This stupid 'childcare' idea isn't going to be sponsored by the U for a LONG time, under the guise that the economy is bad right now :D, so I don't have to worry about my tuition dollars going towards your human spawn. Damn it, I hate having to be so responsible and not reproducing.

well, I think it's COMPLETELY UNREASONABLE that Penn undergrads expect the school to finance that fancy Pottruck Center to support their IRRESPONSIBLE ambition to "bring sexy back" or whatever they're doing in there - shouldn't all these children with gym bodies be RESPONSIBLE enough to pay for a membership somewhere else? Seriously, if I divided up the $100k I paid to Penn for my MCP, I'm sure that a lot of it went to stuff I didn't care about or use. Funding for Hillel (even though I'm not Jewish) and for Pottruck (which grad students have to BUY a membership to) and for on-campus housing maintenance (which grad students can't live in) - these are just a couple examples of places I'm sure some of my money went. But I paid it, and I didn't complain about it, because I was part of a *community*. And that's what we do. We help other people out, even when there's no direct benefit for us, because it's the right thing to do. I don't have kids, but I'd rather see my money go to childcare for students who do than for all the costs that come out of alcohol-fueled undergraduate binges, like vandalism, vomit clean-up, and the office of alcohol education and policies or whatever it's called.

Wow....I never knew Penn students could be so rude and uncaring toward their fellow students. All I have to say is, karma is a b*tch and one day when you are in a different situation and a different phase of your life, you will think back on these comments and probably be ashamed. At least, that is, if you have managed to collect some compassion by then. And I know you will all disagree with me but one day you will remember your ignorant and insensitive comments. When you don't know anything about the situation of others, don't make yourself look stupid by making comments like this. Grow up already and think of someone other than yourself for once.

LMFAO Jim Saksa... This whole entire issue is about taking personal responsibility. I want to and plan to have children someday. However, it will occur after I get at least my master's degree, and after I can afford to take care of the child fully. Grad students should be thankful that they're even accepted, and those that receive stipends and full tuition ought to be extremely grateful. If it were a matter of tuition, scholarship, something like that, then hell yeah, definitely put money towards it. But when an institution like Penn becomes known for bending over backwards every time a few people assemble some bullshit group and get an article featured in the ever-prestigious DP, they'll be expected to finance EVERY group of people that come up with such a request... No, NO - If you want to procreate, do it on your own dime. I hope Penn makes it pretty clear that they're not footing the bill for some people's irresponsible (and yes, that's exactly what it is- irresponsible- when you conceive a child and can't afford to raise it, stupid people...) behavior. With the economy in the crapper and most Penn projects on hold, I can about guarantee it's not going to happen soon, and if it does, I'm certain there will be groups of other students (who requested funds for legitimate projects but were denied due to the financial issues, etc. the school is currently experiencing) that will be extremely pissed. Please, people. If you want to have babies, pay for them yourselves, or sign up for welfare or WIC. Penn is not welfare, and you should be damn glad you were accepted in the first place. That's all I have to say, and looking at the board, I think that there are a lot of people that agree with my viewpoint.

Penn is woefully behind other elite schools in this area. Undergads: most graduate students spend some time out in the real world before returning. Often, they are in their late 20s or early 30s when they do so. A large number of them are married and have kids already. Even if not, they'd want to have kids around that time, so that they might live to see grandkids. Truth is, daycare is expensive for individuals, but cheap for institutions. By providing day care, Penn will be able to attract more talent. As a graduate student at a different university, I can assure you that this matters tremendously to some students. I agree that raising a kid while in college doesn't make a tremendous amount of financial sense. But you can say that for raising kids, period. I'm not sure what you are so terribly upset about, anyway. The university spends a lot more on crap that you'll never benefit from in other areas. I suspect those of you posting don't frequent the ICA often, or stroll around the Morris Arboretum in your free time. Hell, Fox Leadership uses its funds to help people that aren't even associated with Penn! Those bastards! Penn has spent millions on the Penn-Alexander School! Yet, by doing so, Penn recieves a societal benefit worth much more than the cost. It improves the University in ways less obvious as first glance. You should abandon your myopic me-first mentality and think before you start yapping banal bullshit online. Or, at the very least, consider briefly-and I suspect this will be a first for you-what it would be like to be in the single parent grad student's shoes.

L, I don't think the issue is with having students at Penn that are parents; rather, that those students expect Penn to pay for their choices to become parents. I agree with Cria, A, CVM, and O'Sullivan- those of us that choose to have kids should bear the burden of their costs, not the universities. I don't see at ALL how Penn paying for their childcare, etc. helps me as a student succeed in the classroom.

Wow. I'm amazed that individuals presumably associated with one of the top universities in the country would be espousing such archaic gender ideals. To quote Cria, "I guess that kind of responsible upbringing makes me biased against those of us who can't shut our legs long enough to graduate." Seriously?! While Penn undergrads with children may be few and far between, that's not the case in grad school. Even if you start a PhD program straight out of college, you probably won't have your degree until you're 27. But many people take time off between college and graduate school. (In the sciences, you're often encouraged to take some time off and gain research experience working in a lab before applying to schools.) Now you're looking at finishing school in your early 30's. There are also people who change careers or who earn their bachelor's degree later than many (hello, College of Liberal and Professional Studies!) Some of these people may already have children by the time they start school. To say that you can't have both children and an advanced education is unreasonable and insensitive. Does it take an extraordinary amount of time and energy? Absolutely. But some students manage to do it the same way that some professors manage it, and I think that it's in the University's best interest to help them as much as it possibly can. I don't know that it's possible for Penn to provide free childcare for all of its graduate students but I do think that expanding the options and making them more affordable for students will only help the university in the long run.

Penn offers a host of lifestyle amenities that make it even more attractive than just the naked value of the education. A great gym, fabulous libraries with enviable hours of operation, shuttles, that late-night drunk van, loads of study space, tons of free entertainment and guest speakers, residence halls for every kind of interest and need, security at the entrance to every dorm--why not childcare? I don't have kids. I don't plan to have kids while I'm in grad school, but it seems like childcare would be a natural addition to the package. Sure, nobody is entitled to childcare provided by the school. But nor are any of us entitled to a university housing as freshmen, cable TV in the dorm room, the option to buy student insurance, or those swanky whiteboard rooms in Huntsman. These amenities, small and large, help Penn compete with other top-notch schools--and not just in competitions for students. When we court faculty and professors, we brag about many of the same facilities and resources we use to court students. The cost/benefit of Penn-sponsored childcare would be well worth it on that front alone. When looking at multiple schools with comparable grants and research funding, the lifestyle add-ons make a difference. Besides, the students--from what I understand--aren't asking Penn to foot the whole bill. Certainly there would be a charge to those who enroll, even if it's discounted (like all of our gym memberships).

Haas is upset that the university views her as 'invisible'. I've got the perfect solution- leave. Seriously. Drop out, get a real job, support YOUR CHILD, YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, and then maybe you'll have something to gripe about. Getting into Penn is an honor in itself. If your priorities aren't straight, and you want to be selfish and get yourself pregnant, well, boo-frickin-hoo, be like other single parents and be responsible instead of lamenting your self-induced plight and expecting my tuition dollars to cover your (probably) illegitimate child. Sorry that my parents were responsible and waited until they could afford to procreate before they produced me. I guess that kind of responsible upbringing makes me biased against those of us who can't shut our legs long enough to graduate. Peace.

[QUOTE id="5b19248d-3b82-428c-8762-e7a82d8c9bca"]"Haas, a single parent herself..." now how did that happen? what happened to all the free condoms? maybe we should let our classrooms get run down to help pay for people's bad judgment[/QUOTE] LMFAO, Good to see that someone else shares my same view on this. Sean, <3.

Haas, a single parent herself... now how did that happen? what happened to all the free condoms? maybe we should let our classrooms get run down to help pay for people's bad judgment

Sean o' sullivan and "a"- I agree with you both 100%

sorry, Kidding - I've just gotten into the ivy league program of my choice - but I have had bad Ta's here - who clearly only got in because of their ethnicity - it seems that the ones who get in by their academic merits should speak out as well - but the issue is that the one in the article is not realizing how he should consider himself lucky to be here - he shouldnt expect everybody to pay for all of his human droppings

Not everyone who attends Penn is wealthy. Some people are here with earned scholarships and fellowships and the least an institution can do is be supportive so that students here can do even bigger and better things for this world.

As a Penn undergrad alum, I understand the anger undergrads feel towards policy requests like this, but as a current Princeton graduate student, I understand just how wrong-headed and short-sided such emotional responses are to needed policies like the one GAPSA is proposing here. Penn should try to recruit the best graduate students it possibly can in order to improve the academic environment on campus. For some prospective graduate students, this necessarily means not only welcoming them to the Penn community, but also their children. If other universities have policies that are are more welcoming to graduate students' children -- as does, for example, Princeton -- on the margin Penn is going to lose talented graduate students to other programs. While child care policies like this one are obviously not intended to serve most undergraduates, recruiting the best graduate students certainly has that effect. It means superior TAs, it means being able to attract higher-quality faculty, and it means creating an improved climate for research on campus from which scholars of all types -- undergraduates through emeritus faculty -- benefit. Undergraduates will naturally tend to myopically think only about what benefits them directly; I know that because I too was once in exactly the same place as posters above. However, a broader, more enlightened sense of self-interest should quickly lead all members of the Penn community to support this necessary policy proposal.

Penn, I want a goat farm. However, I have nowhere to put the goats. I see that we have a bit of land over there, near that river thing. Me and a few friends want this goat farm. We are ENTITLED to this goat farm, in addition to our scholarships. BUILD IT. NOW.

This line really pisses me off: "Thorpe added that the lack of resources makes Penn a "less attractive" choice for some graduate students." What is that? Oh yeah, Penn isn't catering to my whims exactly. Penn won't pay for my child care in addition to my salary and free tuition. Penn is soooo unattractive because they aren't just throwing money at me and they're not encouraging my family expansion that I am entitled to as a human being by throwing money at it. Wahhh. People, especially Thorpe- please read this comment- you get a SALARY. Like many people that work. You are free to have children, buy cars, or dress up as Sinatra, whatev. However, the burden of these decisions is on YOU- please don't expect our school to further strain itself financially so that you can have children you cannot yet afford. That money is better spent on research, increasing the endowment, helping LEGITIMATELY POOR UNDERGRADS FUND THEIR EDUCATIONS, or a myriad of other things.

*Rolls eyes* Um, Why should Penn have to support that decision financially? I understand that grad students don't make much to begin with, but when you're talking about the fact that they already get free tuition and a decent stipend... I mean, what other employer is expected to pay for their employees' children? Seems to me that this is just another example of people wanting someone else to take on the financial responsibility pertaining to their decisions. Manage your money better- if you can't afford a child, don't have one. Celibacy isn't impossible. Penn shouldn't have to increase stipends, etc. just because a few students want to start a family earlier than they probably ought to. Penn can always find TAs and RAs that will work for a set stipend and free tuition. They already cater enough.

Um, Maybe some people who are in grad school started a family long before they began pursuing their degree? Advanced education and raising children can not, and should not, always be mutually exclusive. Even if Penn doesn't change the child care assistance for its grad students, I hope that Obama can make it easier for researchers to balance career and family: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/20/science/20angier.html?scp=2&sq;=obama%20women%20science&st;=cse

Um, Shouldn't graduate students be smart enough and wise enough to realize that having babies and starting families while still in grad school may not be the wisest idea? Many grad students are already receiving free tuition and a stipend to do their research or TA... Let's not look a gift horse in the mouth people.

Hey there, Sean, it seems you're not just small-minded but bitter and harboring resentment toward minorities as well. For what it's worth, I hope you're a troll. Did you get rejected from Ivy graduate programs, or what?

David Salas-Dela Cruz ought to accept birth control as a responsible way of existing - he was selfish to reproduce and ungrateful to be given the opportunity to have a world class education and complain that the university ought to be paying for his selfishness. I bet there was another person who wanted the privilege of a graduate degree who didn't get the opportunity (his name probably didn't sound as Latin) who would have been glad to come with the generous package that Penn gave mr. Dela Cruz

It's hard to imagine a more miserly attitude toward fellow students than the one demonstrated in the majority of these comments. This mentality demands that everyone faced with any kind of institutional opposition should simply take their lumps. Penn's current policy is structured in such a way that it makes it harder for women -- who are still, unfortunately, most children's primary caregivers -- to compete. And it asks graduate students to make a false, unnecessary choice between their work and their children. Would the neigh-sayers be as sanguine about more blatantly discriminatory policies? Structural discrimination and barriers to the success of many different types of students are the issues we face today. In many ways they are more difficult to combat, but no less important. With sentiments similar to those posted, it's amazing women -- or blacks or Jews, for that matter -- ever managed to pry their way into the Ivies.

FactCheck (For "Andrew Rennekamp"): The fact that she doesn't receive a stipend doesn't matter. Is she, perhaps, financing her own education? Good. That's the way it should be. I completely understand the importance of using the school's finances to help students, both graduate and undergraduate, I truly do. However, I think it's irresponsible and damn near greedy to just expect the school to fling money at those students who decide to reproduce or do whatever when they damn well should be intelligent enough to realize that they can't afford to even take care of themselves on their salary. All these grad students KNOW what they're getting themselves into when they agree to attend Penn. They know that they're either getting funding or not, what the ramifications are of their positions, etc. People in the real world oftentimes don't go around demanding random things from their employer. Some students at Penn, however, have a 'problem' with this, feeling as if this school should just put off other projects and throw their money at their cause that's so important to them. Personally, I think some of the graduate students should stfu when it comes to situations like these and realize that hey, it's what they got themselves into when they agreed on attending, and it's not the university's responsibility to take care of their family members, because I doubt I'm going to see one of their children or their parents TAing my math class. Summary: Graduate school is for your education. You may be lucky and receiving funding. You may choose a master's program and receive no funding. However, either way, you know what you're getting yourself into. Stop expecting everyone else to support you financially just because you decided to procreate. It's irresponsible and borders on greedy. Sorry if this post isn't well-written; need to go to sleep. Had to actually work last night to earn the money that Penn didn't give to me, although I did demand it but was turned down. :(