The Daily Pennsylvanian :: David Kanter

A few weeks back, Wharton sophomore Keith Williams and some friends entered the McDonald's on 40th and Walnut streets during the hours between Saturday night and Sunday morning. As you probably already know, Williams and his friends were called "stupid school kids" and deliberately given bad service, despite treating the staff respectfully.

Williams responded by making a Facebook group called "Boycott McDonald's" and filing a formal complaint. A few days later, he was informed that the offending employees were fired. "I don't regret it," he told me. "There's no reason to be rude and obnoxious."

For future reference, here's the best way to respond the next time a service professional is unnecessarily rude or otherwise treats you badly: Suck it up. Let me tell you why.

I headed down to McDonald's late last Saturday night to get a firsthand look. The place teems with students obscenely shouting at each other and into cell phones, spilling food all over the floor and impatiently griping about the slow service. Last Friday's news article on the incident seems to confirm the scene that I observed. Employees in that article said that students often engage in "rough play," are occasionally kicked out by the security guard and sometimes even sexually harass employees.

Imagine now that you're an employee at this McDonald's. From about 10 until two in the morning on Friday and Saturday nights you have to cater to this crowd. In the midst of all this, a nice, courteous student comes up to the counter and places his order. Having reached your breaking point, you unnecessarily jump down his throat. You lose patience and call him a name even though he wasn't the one who mistreated you. Now you find yourself out of a job.

The point is we've all been there before. We've all been treated badly and taken out our pent-up anger on someone else who didn't deserve it.

The only difference between our situation and the situation of the fired workers is that their rashness might prevent them from paying rent at the end of the month.

That doesn't sit well with me and it shouldn't with you.

The fact that the customer is paying and the employee is getting paid - regardless of what the McDonald's corporate handbook will tell you - is of no consequence. The employees have no recourse when a patron - whether a student or not - treats them badly. They just have to grin and bear it.

So if an employee treats you badly, put up with it. We don't punish every single customer for being rude, so it's unfair to harshly punish employees for similar behavior. Both the customer and the server are human beings, so the same expectation of decency holds for both. There shouldn't be a double standard here.

And what exactly does getting someone fired accomplish? All it does is leave some guy without an income who really needs it, while failing to address any of the underlying issues that create the rudeness in the first place.

As College senior Julian Urrutia put it, Williams is "within his rights to get [the employees] fired, but the negative impact on those people's lives versus the negative impact on his life" just don't seem to match up.

So if you want to live your life knowing that you got people fired for being rude to you, I guess I can't stop you.

But you're best off just turning the other cheek.

David Kanter is a College sophomore from East Falmouth, Mass. His e-mail is kanter@dailypennsylvanian.com. David vs. Goliath appears on Wednesdays.

Comments (24)

it is a job. they took the job, so they have to confer to a set of guidelines which includes treating the customers with respect. if they don't "feel like doing that," then don't take the job and/or get fuckin' fired. good day to you sir.

[QUOTE id="705cd5c6-b53a-4d55-8883-04877090569c"]"We don't punish every single customer for being rude, so it's unfair to harshly punish employees for similar behavior. Both the customer and the server are human beings, so the same expectation of decency holds for both. There shouldn't be a double standard here." This is a really stupid argument. No, it's not unfair to punish employees for similar behavior. That's what you're supposed to do to give employees' incentives to do their work properly. There is no excuse for insulting a customer, no matter how sucky your life is. There is someone out there looking for a job that won't insult customers, and it is better for society for him to get the position. This is the efficient market equilibrium. "But you're best off just turning the other cheek." No, you're not. This varies from person to person. Have you taken any econ classes at Penn?[/QUOTE] Have you read the newspaper lately? The hottest topic, as far as I know, in economics right now is trying to understand the breakdowns in the rational actor model. I can think of few better places where incentives to improved behavior will be be totally ineffective. A second question: have you ever worked nights at a bar or restaurant? Even when employees work for tips, when presumably we would correlate most to incentives for great service, dealing with drunken people inevitably makes you angry, frustrated and often a bit rude. Normally, in the bar industry, we suck it up for the tips. But no one is tipping at McDs. But, the real question here is whether you think it is acceptable to hide behind economics when confronted with moral dilemmas. If you believe that there are theories that justify boorish behavior and goading minimum wage employees into getting fired because of some sort of calculus involved, then so be it. Personally, I think its that sort of theory that makes folks think that the average ivy leaguer is a total douchebag. Which, in your case, is probably true. Good article Dave. Please continue to take down other Penn students a notch whenever the opportunity strikes...and it will strike often.

My new CD drops Tuesday. Holla!

I'm all for efficient market equilibrium and market clearing prices. But, I'm not sure where the equilibrium is. You may imagine that there is a faceless mass of people in West Philadelphia, all of which would clamor for a job sucking it up while Penn students habitually disrespect themselves. Maybe there is. But, how is it good for everyone if you need to regularly iterate through that faceless mass to replace the benighted people who can't take it anymore? It isn't good for those people and it isn't good for you. Replacing staff causes friction and further erodes service and standards. It is not the case that if you do it enough you are going to find the magic trove of workers who will work for nothing, are chipper in the face of abuse, and competent. I really wish some of the aggrieved critics would really put themselves in the shoes of these workers, and not merely imagine what it is like, or wax nostalgic about their tough job at a McDonald's back in Westchester, thinking that they can really identify with what it is like.

Since when should buying a Big Mac require me to put myself in somebody's shoes? I'm putting money in the cash register. That entitles me to basic decency from the person who gets a check for doing that. I will politely ask for my fries and hamburger and politely hand over my money. I should get my order back with the same politeness. The beauty of America is that we are free to make choices. I will not judge a person by what he or she does for a living, and i will not assume that the person is incapable of being polite. Beyond that, I have expectations of good service, and I ought not be judged by others for expecting that. The McDonalds at 40th street has no regard for this community - so it ought to be closed if its staff is not willing to appreciate the diversity of our community.

I lived on 40th and Walnut for 3yrs and my friends and I spent plenty of time at McDonalds. I wanted to make 2 points. 1. It appears that the service in 2008 is at the exact same level as it was when I went to Penn. The people were more often than not rude, impolite and generally disinterested in basic service at ANY time of the day. 2. I did not expect great service when I was paying 39cents for a cheeseburger. If I went just about anywhere else and received that kind of service I would have been outraged. However, the fact that I was eating my meal at MCDONALDS provided a built in understanding of the level of employee I would deal with. There were days when I would eat somewhere else simply so I wouldn't have to deal with them, but that is how you boycott them. Give someone else your business. Trying to get people fired is over the top. Believe me, they aren't going to be replaced with anyone that is happier to be there at 2am catering to Penn kids.

So what would Freud say about our columnists choice to use the word "sucking?"

I would like to see how the people excusing this behavior by McDonald's employees would do if they were put in charge of running a business. I'd like to see how a conversation between an unsatisfied customer and our new UPenn educated Mickey D's managers would turn out if the manager used this columnists' rationale. If customers are being drunk, rude, or messy, management has every right to kick them out and not serve them. Also, a major part of this that your average rude McDonald's employee apologist forgets to mention is that these employees are much ruder to Penn kids than they are to locals. They hate our guts.

Freud would say that "Sucking it up" is a term usually used in sports which means accepting a little pain for the good of the team.

The economics works both ways. Why does McDonalds often have employees who aren't always motivated to provide good service? Because it's not that desirable a job. Why isn't it a highly desirable job? Lots of reasons, but one is because it's not rewarding to serve drunk and obnoxious college kids. I can understand the frustration of customers who are civil; you expect decent service and deserve it. But you're partly paying a cost incurred by fellow students who aren't civil. They're making the job that much less desirable, ensuring a lower quality of employee.

#1 rule in retail/sales: the customer is always right. why? because the customer pays the bills. i'm in professional sales and my customers are financial instutitions... i'm pretty sure my ass would get fired immediately if i were ever rude to our customers and lost us potential future revenue. it is my JOB to be nice to customers and provide high-quality service.. it's what i get paid a lot of money for. i'm pretty sure my job is much harder than being a cashier at mcdonalds, and honestly that particularly mcdonalds is the worst one i've ever been to. it doesn't matter that their customers suck (though i really can't imagine a penn student ever "sexually harassing" the lovely west philly ladies who work at mcdonalds).. if they can't get a better job than working the register at mcds, then it's their problem.

[QUOTE id="23a757b4-4673-4c3c-ac64-cfb8f8cd71ba"]#1 rule in retail/sales: the customer is always right. why? because the customer pays the bills. i'm in professional sales and my customers are financial instutitions... i'm pretty sure my ass would get fired immediately if i were ever rude to our customers and lost us potential future revenue. it is my JOB to be nice to customers and provide high-quality service.. it's what i get paid a lot of money for. i'm pretty sure my job is much harder than being a cashier at mcdonalds, and honestly that particularly mcdonalds is the worst one i've ever been to. it doesn't matter that their customers suck (though i really can't imagine a penn student ever "sexually harassing" the lovely west philly ladies who work at mcdonalds).. if they can't get a better job than working the register at mcds, then it's their problem.[/QUOTE] Ohhh, look at me!! I work in banking and I make tons of money. Everybody look at how successful I am. Are you F%@&king; kidding me? I'm gonna take a stab in the dark here and guess that you weren't born to a single mother in a poverty stricken neighborhood where only half of the kids only go so far as to graduate high school. And then you say it's their fault that they can't get a better job than working at McDonald's? It's their fault that they had to drop out of school to care for a younger sibling when their mother died of a drug overdose because she couldn't deal with the stress of raising three kids on minimum wage? At least have some decency and make some attempt to see the situation from the other side. I'm not defending the actions of the employees who were fired. I think that customers deserve decent service. Just don't be an A$$hole.

Sean O' Sullivan- as our good friend, former columnist, and fellow poster Jim Saksa would say: You Sir, are an Idiot. Let me tell you why. Not only has David tackled such topics in his columns as tolerating diversity in America and raising awareness of the inner city black-on-black violence that occurs only a few blocks away from campus, but no where in his support of the employees is a hint of a racist attitude. Rather, he asserts that if we put ourselves (presumably talking to your average upper middle class white, jewish, or asian Penn student) in the employees' position, we would act similarly, and not differently because of our race. If anything, the racism is inherent in this issue- the fact that most of those employees are African American is because of the pervasive socioeconomic disparity we see everyday on this campus and in this country's cities. Finally, kids who mistreat these employees- by allegedly throwing packs of sauces and sexually harassing them- are to be seriously questioned when it comes to doing these same things at the expense of a white employee. All we're asking you to do is put yourself in your average McDonald's employee's position. [QUOTE id="efcdaf77-3922-42fe-a2d5-32a247587309"]If somebody has the choice of be polite and keep your job or not be polite and lose your job and not pay your rent - and they choose not to be polite - that somebody needs to be removed from his or her job. Your suggestion is nothing more than veiled racism: you do not believe that African-Americans - who make up the large (if not total) number of employees are capable of providing proper customer service. And that is just unacceptable in this day and age to consider an individual incapable of performing properly because of race. We owe it to our community to demand good service and respect.[/QUOTE]

Wow - how racist are you? How do you know the back story of all the workers? Why do you assume that they are all drug addicts or off spring of sex addicts or what have you? How do you know that they aren't just bad employees? And if any of what you say are true, how does it help to excuse bad behavior? Penn owes it to its students to close down all the non-Penn friendly businesses. And we should DEMAND that all the businesses who thrive from Penn support Penn by catering to the Penn community that keeps them alive. QUOTE id="23a757b4-4673-4c3c-ac64-cfb8f8cd71ba"]#1 rule in retail/sales: the customer is always right. why? because the customer pays the bills. i'm in professional sales and my customers are financial instutitions... i'm pretty sure my ass would get fired immediately if i were ever rude to our customers and lost us potential future revenue. it is my JOB to be nice to customers and provide high-quality service.. it's what i get paid a lot of money for. i'm pretty sure my job is much harder than being a cashier at mcdonalds, and honestly that particularly mcdonalds is the worst one i've ever been to. it doesn't matter that their customers suck (though i really can't imagine a penn student ever "sexually harassing" the lovely west philly ladies who work at mcdonalds).. if they can't get a better job than working the register at mcds, then it's their problem.[/QUOTE]

Whoops - I meant to say "Right on :D" To Jim Saksa's comment, not to the douchebag student that asked if one had ever taken an econ class at Penn.

Good point Mr. Kanter. I've been to that McDonald's many a time, both sober and drunk. What I've seen is a group of overworked, underpaid employees having to deal with a bunch of rude, drunk college kids. Have I received less than stellar service on occasion? Yeah, probably. Did I go out of my to get that employee fired? Of course not. That would be ridiculous. You have to remember that even if somebody is rude to you, it's probably not a personal attack. Causing that person to lose his or her job is unjustified. Just suck it up.

The thing that I think you do not understand is that this misbehavior was not a one-time issue, but instead has been a chronic problem. While I agree that people should be forgiven for the occasional mistake, the mistakes made by the employees have become routine. I think you have forgotten the fact that the manager mentioned that multiple people complained about the service at the McDonald's that weekend. The employees likely did not harrass just the students in the Facebook Group, but instead also harrassed numerous others. While they have never been rude to me, they have made a habit of providing me with some of the worst service that I have ever experienced in a McDonald's franchise. The key that you are missing is that the problem with the staff has been reoccuring and tarnishes the reputation of the store.

We don't punish every single customer for being rude, so it's unfair to harshly punish employees for similar behavior. Both the customer and the server are human beings, so the same expectation of decency holds for both. There shouldn't be a double standard here. This is a really stupid argument. No, it's not unfair to punish employees for similar behavior. That's what you're supposed to do to give employees' incentives to do their work properly. There is no excuse for insulting a customer, no matter how sucky your life is. There is someone out there looking for a job that won't insult customers, and it is better for society for him to get the position. This is the efficient market equilibrium. "But you're best off just turning the other cheek." No, you're not. This varies from person to person. Have you taken any econ classes at Penn?

And what exactly does getting someone fired accomplish? A lot. This former employee might have a hard time paying their rent next month but for some patient, hard-working Philadelphia resident without a job this firing opens up a window of opportunity. If this new employee can treat the customer just decently (not like a total piece of shit) he or she will now be the benefactor. And all the customers will then benefit from better service, management will benefit because they wont have to deal with all these problems, and franchise owners will benefit because more customers will enjoy the restaurant. So in answer to the author's question: firing a rude employee accomplishes a lot.

If somebody has the choice of be polite and keep your job or not be polite and lose your job and not pay your rent - and they choose not to be polite - that somebody needs to be removed from his or her job. Your suggestion is nothing more than veiled racism: you do not believe that African-Americans - who make up the large (if not total) number of employees are capable of providing proper customer service. And that is just unacceptable in this day and age to consider an individual incapable of performing properly because of race. We owe it to our community to demand good service and respect.

I think alot of you guys are missing the point of the article. The problem is not whether the employees should have been fired or not. If the manager receives a complaint from customers, he/she has no choice but to fire the employees. It is just the way customer relations work. The ridiculousness of the situation is that this Penn student, who will graduate and likely earn far more than this McD employee and live a far more comfortable life, actually went out of his way to get them fired. Creating a facebook group, filing a formal complaint is hardly necessary under the circumstances. Williams probably left McD, walked into his nice high rise apartment, mastur-cried and went to bed. How did getting poor service at McD at 3am, affect him in anyway. Whereas getting fired from McD probably *&%$ed alot of shit up for him/her. Put things in perspective.

[QUOTE id="efcdaf77-3922-42fe-a2d5-32a247587309"]If somebody has the choice of be polite and keep your job or not be polite and lose your job and not pay your rent - and they choose not to be polite - that somebody needs to be removed from his or her job. Your suggestion is nothing more than veiled racism: you do not believe that African-Americans - who make up the large (if not total) number of employees are capable of providing proper customer service. And that is just unacceptable in this day and age to consider an individual incapable of performing properly because of race. We owe it to our community to demand good service and respect.[/QUOTE] veiled racism? you're the racist. nobody needs your stinkin defense.

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