Stephen Krewson | We're number (sixty) one!

In Forbes' college rankings, there's more to Penn's dismal performance than meets the eye

· September 4, 2008, 5:00 am

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If you're anything like me, you read Forbes for one reason and one reason only: the lists. And as anyone who knows anything will tell you, the best list ever compiled by the magazine is "World's Most Expensive Yachts."

When at a loss for conversation with my more nautical peers, I have often saved face by holding forth on the relative merits of the Alysia ($116.7 million - pricey but spacious!) vs. the Alfa Nero (its aft deck can transform into a dance floor OR a helipad!).

A few weeks ago, Forbes released a slightly more depressing list: "America's Best Colleges." Compiled in collaboration with the Center for College Affordability and Productivity (CCAP), the list provides rankings of 569 institutions of higher learning across the country. It took me a while to scroll down to the entry for the University of Pennsylvania - probably because there were 60 schools above us.

I spoke with junior Matthew Denhart, an economics and political science double-major at Ohio University, who was intimately involved with the research done by CCAP. He explained the five components of the ranking system and the percentage of the total score each comprised. According to Denhart, the methodology was designed to emphasize the "output" rather than the "input" associated with a college education. As he put it, "We're just trying to offer something that shows what you're getting for your money."

The first component measures the number of graduates from each college who are listed in Marquis' Who's Who in America? In this component, Penn placed 24th - the school's highest showing.

On component two, a weighted average of student-submitted ratings on Viacom's RateMyProfessors.com, Penn lagged behind at 107th. This would seem to indicate a relative disappointment with Penn's faculty. I asked Ohio University's Richard Vedder, who headed the Forbes rankings, whether this might be due to the tyranny of high expectations.

His response: "I like that expression and I think it's appropriate. But why isn't it happening at Harvard or Caltech?" Students at those schools are arguably more talented than those at Penn and yet don't suffer from dissatisfaction with their quality of instruction.

Penn was 83rd on the graduation rate component according to CCAP. Denhart explained that his team worked on a regression model to predict the percentage of students graduating within four years. Their model predicted that Penn's 4-year graduation rate should be 84 percent - it's actually 87 percent. On this metric, we outperformed all the institutions above us in this year's U.S. News and World Report rankings.

Debt turned out to be the millstone around Penn's neck. Forbes only looked at students who incurred debt or received financial assistance.

These students' debt loads turned out to be quite weighty - enough to place us 520th on the debt component. Denhart and Vedder acknowledged, however, that the data used was from 2005 and thus did not take into account Penn's recent policy that eliminates most loans.

When combined with our respectable showing on the "Enrollment-adjusted numbers of students and faculty receiving nationally competitive awards" component (think Rhodes, Nobel, MacArthur, etc.), these scores added up to a 61st place cumulative rank among U.S. colleges.

The not-so-subtle implication of the Forbes rankings is this: A 61st-place school with a top-tier selectivity rate must be receiving thousands of applications from prospective students who are being duped solely by its reputation. Rational consumers should prefer Harvey Mudd (ranked 52nd) or Kalamazoo (57th). Both those colleges offer better value and are more likely to accept you!

Of course, this all depends on how you look at the data.

Vedder and his team set out to bridge the "information gap" created by rankings such as those from U.S. News, which paint an incomplete picture and - in their judgment - are easily manipulated.

But by measuring an entirely different set of variables, Forbes has created a sort of information chasm - one in which the divergences among various rankings threaten to make a tough decision tougher.

Vedder agreed with me on the need for better data and hinted at the possibility of future rankings that combine various metrics. As he framed his advice to prospective students: "Visit the school. Talk to people . Look at multiple rankings - maybe take an average!"

Stephen Krewson is a College junior from Schenectady, N.Y. His e-mail is krewson@dailypennsylvanian.com. The Me Speech Zone appears alternating Thursdays.

Comments (10)

penn10

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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The RateMyProfessors.com part really irks me. Only 17 out of the 484 professors are rated have more than 10 ratings (and 10 ratings would probably represent 0.01% of students some professors have ever taught), and only 484 out of the 4,500 professors are rated. I don't know anyone who uses this program and its very likely that most students wouldn't, given that we are asked to rate professors at the end of each semester with Penn's internal system.

Another Alum

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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I assumed that the comment by "A Penn's Student" was facetious. But then again, I gave him/her the benefit of the doubt.

2002 Alumnus

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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[QUOTE id="e1eecd71-9b29-4a1f-a998-7cea2578b763"]Penn is NOT a good school and NOT a real ivy league. We all knew what we were getting into when we didn't get into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford.[/QUOTE] Somebody seems bitter. Not everyone who attends Penn is a reject of other supposedly superior schools. A girl in my freshman-year hallway furnished her acceptance letters from Yale, Stanford, MIT, and Brown after several disenchanted neighbors disbelieved her claims of declining those aforementioned schools for Penn/Wharton. (That action really shut them up.) I donÃ?t regret my decision to turn down Columbia. In my sophomore year, I met a transfer student from HarvardÃ?oh, how shocking! If you really dislike Penn so much, then spare yourself continued misery and transfer. In cooking, one can be given the best ingredients and still produce inedible food. Plenty of Ã?top-tierÃ? universities have yielded mediocre professionals and even outright criminals. Wherever one attends college, one should try not to squander the available educational and networking opportunities.

John

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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Princeton is at the top of the Forbes list. And Princeton is Steve Forbes' alma mater. Just a coincidence, I'm sure...

2008 alum

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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I have no doubt that there are plenty of no-name schools out there that provide an education on par with or exceeding Penn. That being said, the purpose of college is to teach students how to think and prepare them for some form of a profession. I can tell you, having gone through the intern/job hunting process throughout my 4 years, that having the Penn "label" will put you head & shoulders over students from the majority of other schools in the "top 60." Also, the use of RateMyProfessors.com and students' self-assessment of how satisfied they are with their education is no way to judge the "greatness" of a school.

A Penn Student

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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Penn is NOT a good school and NOT a real ivy league. We all knew what we were getting into when we didn't get into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford.

Alum

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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Penn Student - WTF? Not only are your comments way up there on the crazy stupid scale but where's the school loyalty? If you think its that bad, transfer.

Jim, the asshole

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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[QUOTE id="e1eecd71-9b29-4a1f-a998-7cea2578b763"]Penn is NOT a good school and NOT a real ivy league. We all knew what we were getting into when we didn't get into Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford.[/QUOTE] I just want to point out two things. 1. Stanford is not in the Ivy League. 2. I can't count good. 3. This was a bang up column by Steve. -Jim

Gentle Reader

December 31, 1969, 7:00 pm

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I think you are wrong about Harvey Mudd-- it's median SAT score is 1470, much higher than Penn's and it is more selective than Penn. A greater percentage of its alumni get PhD's than almost any other school, even MIT or Caltech. It's just small, which is why you haven't heard of it. One of the Claremont Colleges in Claremont, CA. But I agree with you.. both Mudd and Penn should be ranked higher, and the methodology in Forbes is bogus.

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June 21, 2010, 10:34 pm

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