So it's been four months and no rowing articles to comment on. I was cruising through a Bill Simmons chat on ESPN and found some striking similarities to the situation on boathouse in a discussion about the L.A. Clippers: But how the Clippers have treated their season ticketholders by NOT firing a complete fraud by Dunleavy, coupled with Dunleavy's total unwillingness to accept any responsibility whatsoever for this crappy season and/or a roster of players who actively hate him ... I mean, it's honestly one of the most depressing sports-related situations I have ever seen. Mike Dunleavy, I like sports less than I did 3 months ago - just a little, but still - because of you. You should quit. Have the dignity to step down as coach. Keep your GM job and continuing making bad moves. The Clips fans don't care - they are smart enough to know that Sterling will never fire you because he's too cheap. But don't keep going out there with your crappy gray suits and pretending that these players are listening to you. I have been to 11 or 12 games this year - the fans hate you, the players hate you, we all want you to go. Do the dignified thing and step down. Hand the team over to Kim Hughes. And by the way, you might be a nice guy and a great family guy - if you are, that;s fantastic. I just know that this specific Clippers team, and this specific fan base (small, but still), thinks you're awful at your job and wants you to leave. So do it. You are stealing money from the team. Fred sucks. -Slingblade

Brandon, Thanks for not mentioning the lightweight program. I can tell you put a lot of thought into this article. I just hope your major doesn't involve a whole lot of research. Your grammar is also horrible - "beginning of the final leg of a disappointing seasons." Smell you later.

why are all rowers such cranky biotches?

Hey Skinny, be thankful that this "reporter" didn't do any research. The lightweights haven't exactly been burning the course this year, although MIT is such a fast crew! Seriously, the AD should be looking at cleaning house on that side of the boat bay too! However, I agree that this reporter can't write and the editor obviously didn't check the article. I also give the reporter low marks for initiative - why didn't he get a quote from Fred Honebein? I am sure Fred has much to say about how his crew is doing and he could comment on "a disappointing seasons"

[QUOTE id="7b22f454-ddc8-4b92-81c8-822a52d5ca74"]Brandon, Thanks for not mentioning the lightweight program. I can tell you put a lot of thought into this article. [/QUOTE] I actually think it has more to do with the fact that nobody wants to read about them.

Not a single person on Penn's campus right now -- students, professors, staff, coaches, administrators... the list goes on -- not a single one of those people on campus cares about the crew teams. Crew is the hands down least attended, least appreciated, and least popular sport the athletic department offers. The only people that seem to care about it are you old, washed up alumni that can't get your heads out of your asses and are desperate to relive the glory days. Well guess what? The glory days are over. Stop complaining about every single DP article on crew; the DP shouldn't even cover crew cause no one cares about it at all. At all. Women's squash is like 10 times more popular.

1v Heavy 16th out of 18 2v Dead last out of 16 Frosh 17 out of 18 Stunning

[QUOTE id="8b80b525-721b-4d47-afa8-89d036090852"]Not a single person on Penn's campus right now -- students, professors, staff, coaches, administrators... the list goes on -- not a single one of those people on campus cares about the crew teams. Crew is the hands down least attended, least appreciated, and least popular sport the athletic department offers. The only people that seem to care about it are you old, washed up alumni that can't get your heads out of your asses and are desperate to relive the glory days. Well guess what? The glory days are over. Stop complaining about every single DP article on crew; the DP shouldn't even cover crew cause no one cares about it at all. At all. Women's squash is like 10 times more popular.[/QUOTE] Hey, it looks like Steve Bilsky does read and post on these message boards! It is sad that the glory days of crew at Penn have passed by, and we can all thank Steve Bilsky and the Friends of Rowing for this mess. Poor recruiting, poor training and preparation, and the refusal of the administration to admit their mistakes and make the necessary changes has driven Penn Crew to the bottom of the rowing world. In past days the program battled Harvard and Princeton for the top honors, now the program can't even beat Holy Cross!

[QUOTE id="9d05680e-317f-4b43-accc-377f27fd40f0"]1v Heavy 16th out of 18 2v Dead last out of 16 Frosh 17 out of 18 Stunning[/QUOTE] Is that you, BOZ??

Hey Willie... choke on a fat one. And shut up.

[QUOTE id="b42be669-86f0-4b6f-8cf7-663bf2e08678"]Hey Willie... choke on a fat one. And shut up.[/QUOTE] Jay - your comment was juvenile and boorish. Next time try to contribute something to the discussion. Willie is merely merely stating the stats and sometimes the truth hurts. When you started with the Penn rowing, the program was ranked about 14th in the nation, today it is ranked no better than 27th as it received not one vote in the most recent collegiate poll. Penn did not receive a single point in the Rowe Cup - perhaps a first. By most accounts, this was the worst showing Penn has ever had at the Sprints. Your freshman boat was competitive as were the next two culminating with a Sprints winning Frosh crew. For the past two years the freshman boat has been anything but competitive and upper class oarsmen have been leaving the program. Oarsmen will stay with a program that appears headed in the right direction and races competitively. When a program produces boats that are out of the race by the 600 meter mark, what is the incentive to keep beating your head against the wall? Not much. There is plenty of blame to go around but Bilsky, Peterson and Honebein head my list.

The Honebein apologists have now all gone underground (again!). For weeks these people have been saying "wait for the Sprints". Honebein sent out an email to alumni saying that better times were expected at the Sprints. Well, the results are in and as Willie would say, "It ain't alright!" This has to be the worst overall performance at the Sprints by a Penn crew in history. I would expect the performance at the IRA would be similarly disappointing. It is clear what needs to be done, the question is does Bilsky and Co have the stones to do it? A credible coach with a strong track record needs to be found to rebuild from the ground up. And while the cleaning at teh boathouse is being done, perhaps a change in the leadership at the Friends of Rowing is in order. Under Peterson's leadership, the Friends have done more to slow down the program than anyone could have imagined

1) You are finishing near the bottom of the most competitive league in the world, get some perspective. 2) The Penn crews should not be racing at the IRA. They have not earned it. If the regatta is going to have any legitimacy, then you need the 24 best crews in the country. Take a year off.

Whatever, Catch it!!

Jay/"hw 07" - Seriously? Results are results. By criticizing these results, people show that they want better for/from this team. Otherwise, burying your head in the sand just leaves your ass exposed. To those thinking the team should not send boats to the IRA: that is the most ludicrous concept or statement yet to 'grace' these comments boards. Most importantly, not sending boats to that race punishes the rowers, who have put their utmost effort into the program all year. These rowers are certainly all just as frustrated or disappointed as you and I may be and perhaps these last few weeks will provide the impetus for a positive finish to an otherwise negative season. To shut the season down now is to sag our shoulders and walk away with tails between our legs which is not something I consider part of Penn rowing. The concept of alumni interfering and telling these rowers that they are not good enough to continue competing infuriates me and I hope it infuriates the current rowers as well.

These negative comments are not at all helpful to future success. I am sure that the Torre haters are happy now in NYC since the Yanks are doing so well since he was fired. And the Dodgers are doing so terribly with him on board. Must be the coach's fault! Fred walked into a difficult situation. He is going to right the ship with his own horses and coaching philosophy. He has a terrific work ethic and he improved Oregon State when he was coach there. PS. A new or remodeled boat house would help.

[QUOTE id="01cc3972-ef0a-4705-8a4a-c5a3b52abdbc"]These negative comments are not at all helpful to future success. I am sure that the Torre haters are happy now in NYC since the Yanks are doing so well since he was fired. And the Dodgers are doing so terribly with him on board. Must be the coach's fault! Fred walked into a difficult situation. He is going to right the ship with his own horses and coaching philosophy. He has a terrific work ethic and he improved Oregon State when he was coach there. PS. A new or remodeled boat house would help.[/QUOTE] Comparing Fred Honebein to Joe Torre is the most ridiculous thing I have seen on these message boards. Torre established himself as a great manager. Honebein's record as a coach is pedestrian at best, and Oregon State has improved markedly since he left. Penn has sunk to the bottom of the rowing world. The results don't lie. Fred has the right to compete with his own horses but it makes little sense for him to drive away the horses he inherited (who didn't seem to be half bad). The situation Fred walked into at Penn was better than the situation he had at Oregon State, or he would not have come here. However, it is evident by his words and actions he had no clue as to teh competitiveness of East Coast rowing. The results of the Freshmen since his arrival do not indicate that the horses he has recruited can make the boat move fast. We are seeing historic times for Penn Crew; unfortunately the history being made is not something we want to see. Blaming poor performances on the "inability of the crew to execute" gets old. The real question is why don't they execute, and if they did execute Fred's plan would it make the boat go fast. I have my doubts! I think the crew should compete at the IRA, but it is pretty clear that just getting to the 3rd level final would be a major accomplishment.

I agree with Wakeup and Mr. Jefferson. This is not the year to go to the IRAs. Nothing can be gained by attending. Penn will only end up giving up more shirts to be used to wipe down other programs' riggers. The latest cMax rankings found on Row2K tell the sad facts - from the first ranking in mid April to the latest ranking (05/19) Penn dropped two positions. But the more telling fact is that they dropped 4.4 seconds further behind the top boat - that's length ++ in just a month's time. Either the oarsmen have given up or the coaching has failed. I go with the later. Wake up Steve Bilsky and at least try and save your job (not that I want that to happen). Let's a have a clean sweep in the coaching staff on the men's side of the boathouse. Hail Mike Lane and his 5th place finish at the Women's Sprints!

i know nothing about crew, but i think that this message board is pretty entertaining now. why don't you guys make a fire honebein website and sell wristbands and t-shirts and stuff? this could get big -- maybe crew could finally get the attention it deserves if students are walking around campus wearing random fire honebein t-shirts. it has the potential to be a funny craze.

All i'm saying is that we don't need to harp on the results. Anyone that cares has seen them and I'm sure the guys feel bad enough about it. If the rowers are unhappy with something or want change they can initiate it themselves... the thing I hated the most about being an athlete at penn was everyone outside the boathouse giving their 2 cents and acting like they knew wtf is going on. Obv there are many knowledgable alums out there who have an enormous amount of pride. That's a great thing and I'm one of them, but unless asked and sought out by the team for help... shut up.

I agree, the current rowers do deserve a better experience. When I say "shut up" I guess I am speaking to the types of guys that created the shit storm 2 yrs ago surrounding Coach B. Knowing that all this negativity and uproar was going on behind our backs and we were pretty much powerless to help it, nor wanted a change, was bad for the team. I agree that the current results and situation are very bad. As to a result? I'm not really sure. All I want to see happen is something that is agreeable to both the Alums and to the rowers... the antithesis of what occurred in 2005.

[QUOTE id="2d2d9480-c291-4ecc-9389-3bc05cf2180f"]All i'm saying is that we don't need to harp on the results. Anyone that cares has seen them and I'm sure the guys feel bad enough about it. If the rowers are unhappy with something or want change they can initiate it themselves... the thing I hated the most about being an athlete at penn was everyone outside the boathouse giving their 2 cents and acting like they knew wtf is going on. Obv there are many knowledgable alums out there who have an enormous amount of pride. That's a great thing and I'm one of them, but unless asked and sought out by the team for help... shut up.[/QUOTE] It's not hard to figure out what is going on (or NOT going on). The boats are not moving fast, the program has slipped way behind perrenial doormats such as Holy Cross, Syracuse, and Columbia, recruiting has been a disaster, not to mention retention of rowers in the program. If these aren't signs of a team needing help, I can't imagine what is. Under your scenario, who do the current rowers turn to for help, the "Friends of Rowing"? It is those backstabbing clowns who set up this mess in the first place. Approach Steve Bilsky? He could care less, and is probably getting a good laugh as he sits in his office counting the donated cash that was paid to make the last coaching change. Face it, at the end of the day results are all that matters. Nobody is going to come to a program where the crew is getting whipped by double digits every week (FYI, Cornell wins by 16 seconds today). Now that the program has sunk to these depths, it will take one hell of a person to bring it back, a great coach as well as a great salesman to convince good rowers to take a chance and come to Philly. Sorry, this task is out of the league of anyone currently in the Penn boathouse. Finally, you can tell the alums to shut up and go away, but remember this when the program comes back to us for money to finance trips to a dry lake in Georgia or to Oklahoma head races. We will be sure to keep the wallets closed as well as our mouths. The young men on the current team deserve better

Following the Sprints, Penn trailed Cornell in the cMax ratings by 11 seconds. Penn lost the Madeira Cup by 16 seconds. So in a week they lost over a boat length in speed. So much for the coach's prediction that they would execute the elusive game plan. Perhaps it is the plan. The coach now sits atop a program that failed to win one race at any level this year. Might this be a first? The oarsmen deserve better.

2005 - The year that Penn Rowing Died. As an ex-Bergman rower and current high school coach, I am constantly asked questions about the situation on Boathouse Row. While these questions are all legitimate, many of which coming from well-respected ex-rowers (read: Olympians), I find myself at a loss for words while trying to be diplomatic in my "answers" (read: excuses). Here are the top 3 (in no particular order) most difficult questions I have received: "Why was Stan fired?" "What was the last race the Quakers won?" "Fred is a nice guy" The only saving grace about this season: I have told my rowers that Penn will be more than happy to recruit them. Fastest 2k on the team; 6:43

I have a question for all the posters on here calling for Fred's resignation. Lets say Fred does leave, who do you think would want to get anywhere near this job? After the horrible treatment of Coach Bergman and the awful things that are being said about Fred by supposed "supporters" and "friends" of Penn rowing, no decent coach in his right mind would get within a million miles of #11 Boathouse Row.