SEAS considers more job-oriented classes

A generous-paying job offer can mark a happy finale to a Penn education, but at the Engineering school, making sure students are ready can be a difficult task.

With zealous recruiters, job-hungry students and a field changing faster than ever before, SEAS administrators and professors are now questioning how much weight to put on career-training in the school, one whose curriculum has long been rooted in teaching students fundamentals.

That means making decisions based on a myriad of factors, including how an economic recession may affect engineering jobs, which fields are booming and research that suggests Penn students may be inclined to enter the job market sooner rather than later.

According to data released by Career Services in October, nearly three-fourths of 2007 SEAS graduates were already employed full-time within months of leaving school. The ratio was higher than that of the College and matched or exceeded those of peer engineering institutions like MIT and Cornell.

As a result, employers have begun recruiting more aggressively in recent years, explained Rosette Pyne, Senior Associate Director at Career Services.

Pyne cited crowded career fairs now attracting freshmen and sophomores. She also pointed to attention-grabbing donations by companies like Accenture, which received naming privileges to the cyber cafe in Levine Hall.

Such measures have brought employers and students closer together, but officials at SEAS are hesitant to move the school's focus away from a foundational approach.

"It's always a challenge," SEAS Deputy Dean George Pappas explained. "On one side you want to give people the foundation they need, but at the same time you want to adapt to what society wants . [there is] no sort of optimum answer."

Luckily, he said, "The fundamentals do not change."

The careers available to engineers, however, have been changing. Consulting and financial services now account for 57 percent of the jobs taken by SEAS graduates upon leaving school, and schools are beginning to offer more classes that teach rapidly developing technology in fields like bioengineering and robotics.

"Engineering has become cross-disciplinary," explained Mark Savage, director of Co-op and Career Services at Cornell University. At Penn, many classes now combine topics in the Engineering School's six departments, and according to Pappas, the school has put added focus on undergraduate research and computer skills - things he said will help students in a career or in grad school.

Still, while Savage hinted that the changing dynamics of engineering may help it largely avoid the effects of an economic recession, he warned against putting too much emphasis on predictions about the future of the field. He pointed out to students at Cornell that predictions about technology in 50 years could be just as misguided as predictions in 1967 about today.

Comments (3)

No matter where you turn, you see Penn students clamoring to be treated like workers, clamoring to transform university education into vocational training. Increasingly, university administration caters to this deadly desire. Any who have held jobs know how dreary it is to work with uneducated people--or live in a country run by an uneducated Ivy graduate-- which is what universities are increasingly turning out. In fact, this will be the first generation of students who will be less educated than their parents: hard to believe! Hilarious if you think about it (though likely you don't want to): have any parents worked harder to get their kids into the best universities? And what do these kids want to do when they get here? Turn the best schools into trade schools: and faculty accede to this demand! LOL!! LMAO!! At trade schools, they eliminate all those messy stupid requirements that have nothing to do with your delightful future, your j-o-b (all hail!). At hair styling school, no one discusses history, literature, philosophy; ditto at the trade schools that prepare you for jobs as ITAs, med techs, plumbers, auto mechanics, masseuses. No requirements! No books!!! Just right to the basic stuff you need to know to be a good worker-bee. Yes indeed, folks, none of that boring intellectual yukky stuff that you're never going to USE! Instead, let's have classes in how to tie your tie (or your scarf!)and maybe how to suffer through decades of working alongside dreary, uneducated dullards like yourselves who can talk about nothing besides their jobs. People without any breadth or depth of knowledge, who know only how to make and spend money and for them, this is the essence of existence: spending money on food, drink, shelter and making much of that (oh what tasty food! what expensive alcohol I'm wiping out my misery with). Punctuated by travel to places where they hole up in places just like home! Who needs to read, write, or explore ideas? What a bunch of crap: let's go market vodka!!! Let's go steal some old lady's pension and make a few bucks on the stock market! Let's have classes in how to tie your tie, how to do "face time," how to swallow your pride, how to do the same dreary things day in and day out without letting it completely gut your psyche, etc. And don't forget stress management! You're going to need that for sure, what with all the empty conversations and ruthless people you'll be dealing with, yourselves included! Nothing like people without vision, historical context, or a grasp of the larger issues of life to enrich one's day. Truth be told, very few jobs require a college education to do them well: you don't need to know philosophy or world history to flourish on Wall Street or in the emergency room. Many today who hold these jobs are complete ignoramuses, in fact: they have nothing to say. Sure, they're depressed and grasping and floundering around, destructive to everything and everyone around them. But hell, who cares: they're making good money. Let's make Penn a trade school! Viva la revolution (oops, sorry for that allusion: let's go kick some a!!) Money money money money money: yesiree, that's the meaning of life, boys and girls: just keep your nose to that grindstone. (cough cough bang bang: build more prisons, oxygen masks, bomb shelters: good money-making prospects) The only job that demands a college education is that of a college professor (maybe). At one time we would have said teachers also need college educations, but since they turned elementary and secondary education into vocational school, well, our teachers are pretty lousy now: many can't even read or write and know nothing about their subjects because they majored in vocational training--an "ed degree"--that prepared them for their "jobs" so well that they now have no time to learn the subjects they're supposed to teach! High-larious! And rather than insist that teachers learn subjects, schools have adjusted by no longer having teachers who specialize in subjects: anybody can teach anything! High-larious: LOL! LMAO. Dumb, dumber, dumbest.

[QUOTE id="89cc8c27-8d89-456d-8aa6-9f6b53412792"]No matter where you turn, you see Penn students clamoring to be treated like workers, clamoring to transform university education into vocational training. Increasingly, university administration caters to this deadly desire. Any who have held jobs know how dreary it is to work with uneducated people--or live in a country run by an uneducated Ivy graduate-- which is what universities are increasingly turning out. In fact, this will be the first generation of students who will be less educated than their parents: hard to believe! Hilarious if you think about it (though likely you don't want to): have any parents worked harder to get their kids into the best universities? And what do these kids want to do when they get here? Turn the best schools into trade schools: and faculty accede to this demand! LOL!! LMAO!! At trade schools, they eliminate all those messy stupid requirements that have nothing to do with your delightful future, your j-o-b (all hail!). At hair styling school, no one discusses history, literature, philosophy; ditto at the trade schools that prepare you for jobs as ITAs, med techs, plumbers, auto mechanics, masseuses. No requirements! No books!!! Just right to the basic stuff you need to know to be a good worker-bee. Yes indeed, folks, none of that boring intellectual yukky stuff that you're never going to USE! Instead, let's have classes in how to tie your tie (or your scarf!)and maybe how to suffer through decades of working alongside dreary, uneducated dullards like yourselves who can talk about nothing besides their jobs. People without any breadth or depth of knowledge, who know only how to make and spend money and for them, this is the essence of existence: spending money on food, drink, shelter and making much of that (oh what tasty food! what expensive alcohol I'm wiping out my misery with). Punctuated by travel to places where they hole up in places just like home! Who needs to read, write, or explore ideas? What a bunch of crap: let's go market vodka!!! Let's go steal some old lady's pension and make a few bucks on the stock market! Let's have classes in how to tie your tie, how to do "face time," how to swallow your pride, how to do the same dreary things day in and day out without letting it completely gut your psyche, etc. And don't forget stress management! You're going to need that for sure, what with all the empty conversations and ruthless people you'll be dealing with, yourselves included! Nothing like people without vision, historical context, or a grasp of the larger issues of life to enrich one's day. Truth be told, very few jobs require a college education to do them well: you don't need to know philosophy or world history to flourish on Wall Street or in the emergency room. Many today who hold these jobs are complete ignoramuses, in fact: they have nothing to say. Sure, they're depressed and grasping and floundering around, destructive to everything and everyone around them. But hell, who cares: they're making good money. Let's make Penn a trade school! Viva la revolution (oops, sorry for that allusion: let's go kick some a!!) Money money money money money: yesiree, that's the meaning of life, boys and girls: just keep your nose to that grindstone. (cough cough bang bang: build more prisons, oxygen masks, bomb shelters: good money-making prospects) The only job that demands a college education is that of a college professor (maybe). At one time we would have said teachers also need college educations, but since they turned elementary and secondary education into vocational school, well, our teachers are pretty lousy now: many can't even read or write and know nothing about their subjects because they majored in vocational training--an "ed degree"--that prepared them for their "jobs" so well that they now have no time to learn the subjects they're supposed to teach! High-larious! And rather than insist that teachers learn subjects, schools have adjusted by no longer having teachers who specialize in subjects: anybody can teach anything! High-larious: LOL! LMAO. Dumb, dumber, dumbest.[/QUOTE] Oh come on, don't be so harsh on yourself. It seems like you're mostly literate, despite your trade school education, and are articulate. Keep working on it and you'll end up being a well rounded and more happy individual, even though I know it can be depressing to realize no one is ever going to pay you to sit on your ass and pontificate.

[QUOTE id="89cc8c27-8d89-456d-8aa6-9f6b53412792"]No matter where you turn, you see Penn students clamoring to be treated like workers, clamoring to transform university education into vocational training. Increasingly, university administration caters to this deadly desire. Any who have held jobs know how dreary it is to work with uneducated people--or live in a country run by an uneducated Ivy graduate-- which is what universities are increasingly turning out. In fact, this will be the first generation of students who will be less educated than their parents: hard to believe! Hilarious if you think about it (though likely you don't want to): have any parents worked harder to get their kids into the best universities? And what do these kids want to do when they get here? Turn the best schools into trade schools: and faculty accede to this demand! LOL!! LMAO!! At trade schools, they eliminate all those messy stupid requirements that have nothing to do with your delightful future, your j-o-b (all hail!). At hair styling school, no one discusses history, literature, philosophy; ditto at the trade schools that prepare you for jobs as ITAs, med techs, plumbers, auto mechanics, masseuses. No requirements! No books!!! Just right to the basic stuff you need to know to be a good worker-bee. Yes indeed, folks, none of that boring intellectual yukky stuff that you're never going to USE! Instead, let's have classes in how to tie your tie (or your scarf!)and maybe how to suffer through decades of working alongside dreary, uneducated dullards like yourselves who can talk about nothing besides their jobs. People without any breadth or depth of knowledge, who know only how to make and spend money and for them, this is the essence of existence: spending money on food, drink, shelter and making much of that (oh what tasty food! what expensive alcohol I'm wiping out my misery with). Punctuated by travel to places where they hole up in places just like home! Who needs to read, write, or explore ideas? What a bunch of crap: let's go market vodka!!! Let's go steal some old lady's pension and make a few bucks on the stock market! Let's have classes in how to tie your tie, how to do "face time," how to swallow your pride, how to do the same dreary things day in and day out without letting it completely gut your psyche, etc. And don't forget stress management! You're going to need that for sure, what with all the empty conversations and ruthless people you'll be dealing with, yourselves included! Nothing like people without vision, historical context, or a grasp of the larger issues of life to enrich one's day. Truth be told, very few jobs require a college education to do them well: you don't need to know philosophy or world history to flourish on Wall Street or in the emergency room. Many today who hold these jobs are complete ignoramuses, in fact: they have nothing to say. Sure, they're depressed and grasping and floundering around, destructive to everything and everyone around them. But hell, who cares: they're making good money. Let's make Penn a trade school! Viva la revolution (oops, sorry for that allusion: let's go kick some a!!) Money money money money money: yesiree, that's the meaning of life, boys and girls: just keep your nose to that grindstone. (cough cough bang bang: build more prisons, oxygen masks, bomb shelters: good money-making prospects) The only job that demands a college education is that of a college professor (maybe). At one time we would have said teachers also need college educations, but since they turned elementary and secondary education into vocational school, well, our teachers are pretty lousy now: many can't even read or write and know nothing about their subjects because they majored in vocational training--an "ed degree"--that prepared them for their "jobs" so well that they now have no time to learn the subjects they're supposed to teach! High-larious! And rather than insist that teachers learn subjects, schools have adjusted by no longer having teachers who specialize in subjects: anybody can teach anything! High-larious: LOL! LMAO. Dumb, dumber, dumbest.[/QUOTE] Aw, poor Trader Joe, bobbing in the marketplace, and after another hard day at work shaking down old ladies. Your reading skills are a little rough, Joey boy, but that goes with the territory. Back to your little tank, Mr. Minnow, splash about till you and yours go belly up. Maybe there will be someone left to turn off the aquarium lights when it's all over.

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