With a victory over Purdue and Colgate, Columbia is quaking in its boots. Honebein may be dealing with a bad hand thanks to Bilsky, but the Friends were too stupid to be anything more than Bilsky's sock puppets. Good job guys. Not only did you screw the team, you screwed the one coach that would stick up for you no matter how stupid you are.

[QUOTE id="52c2ccf3-55ed-4144-a234-09b7e600d6db"]The sad truth is that Penn Rowing was in trouble starting in the late '90s. This is the time when the athletic administration decided to cut back on the amount of recruits Penn Crew can bring in each year. Combine that with Harvard and Princeton lowering their standards for admissions to rowing recruits. Coach Bergman did his best to try to compete at the highest level, but the reality was he did not have the horses as the other programs did and like he did in the past. This really showed itself after 2002. Now the program went completely in the crapper when the "Friends" did not have the insight to see that the coach did not need to be changed but the philosophy of the athletic department did. Instead, some self-important alums decided they knew best and urged Bilsky to oust Coach Bergman, without all the facts. When they were unsuccessful in luring Coach Teti to take over, the crap really hit the fan. I do not think Coach Honebein is a bad coach. However, when the "Friends" and Bilsky made their decision to treat a legend like garbage, not many coaches came knocking, and when Teti, maybe the only guy that could've rescued Penn Crew and forced the admin. to change it's recruiting philosophy declined the job, the program was doomed.[/QUOTE] Alum 97 I agree with everything you said, with the exception that Penn could not recruit the horses....the Frosh won the Sprints two years ago (Stan's last year) so there must have been talent there, or Seth Brennan was a much better coach than anyone in the athletic department or in the "Friends" cabal gave him credit for. I wondered why Brennan wasn't considered for the job, and it seemed like he wasn't considered highly by the stuffed shirts in the athletic department. That said, what you say about admissions policies both at Penn and the other Ivies is correct. This makes the job harder for anyone coaching this team, and now with what looks like another dismal season and less than 2 varsity eights who in their right mind would want to come to participate in this mess? Losing is a vicious cycle, and Fred has hsi work cut out for him. Unfortunately, I doubt Fred is the man to drive this turnaround. Finally, I would love to see the "friends of rowing" be held accountable somehow for this mess they have created, but we all know that will never happen LHL

LHL, Let me clarify my statement about not getting the horses. They could still recruit very talented guys, but only 8 of them a year. The administration wouldn't even allow them to recruit a coxswain every year. The problem is that with only 8 guys, the admin. did not take into account rowers getting injured or quitting the team. This is what happened to the frosh 8 of a few years ago. I think there are only 3-4 of them still rowing. And I will say a few of them are not rowing because of the coaching changes. Bottom line is that until the admin. allows Penn Crew to recruit like it did in the 80's (allowing 16-18 slots for oarsmen) and unless Harvard and Princeton raise their standards of admittance to the level it once was, Penn Crew will cease to exist as we remember it. The best chance is to hope Bilsky retires soon as he has intimated to closed circles and hope a pro-Crew friendly AD takes over.

First a couple of facts: All of these comments are being printed out and posted in the Penn locker room, and here's what I can tell you: to all of you guys who are bashing Fred, the rowers hate you. Something that all of you Alums need to remember is that rowing is for the athletes, not for the Alums - this isn't a spectator sport like football. And for all you people claiming that Fred's first recruiting class was crap, why don't you wait until the season's over before you pass judgment because I think they're gonna turn some heads, and for the record none of this years recruits have quit and from what I hear, next year's class is a very fast recruiting class. And everyone talks about how the Freshman won sprints two year ago, well theres only 2 people from that boat left and that is NOT Fred's fault. They clearly lost the drive for the sport, if they still had the drive they would have at least given Fred a chance considering his impressive history as an oarsman, but they didn't. They all joined frats, started drinking too much and burned out before Fred even had a chance to do anything with them.

[QUOTE id="0e6ea3b7-b11b-4e8b-85d5-9285fc75eb3f"]First a couple of facts: All of these comments are being printed out and posted in the Penn locker room, and here's what I can tell you: to all of you guys who are bashing Fred, the rowers hate you. Something that all of you Alums need to remember is that rowing is for the athletes, not for the Alums - this isn't a spectator sport like football. And for all you people claiming that Fred's first recruiting class was crap, why don't you wait until the season's over before you pass judgment because I think they're gonna turn some heads, and for the record none of this years recruits have quit and from what I hear, next year's class is a very fast recruiting class. And everyone talks about how the Freshman won sprints two year ago, well theres only 2 people from that boat left and that is NOT Fred's fault. They clearly lost the drive for the sport, if they still had the drive they would have at least given Fred a chance considering his impressive history as an oarsman, but they didn't. They all joined frats, started drinking too much and burned out before Fred even had a chance to do anything with them.[/QUOTE] Lighty Absolving Fred from all responsibility for the current state of the program while blaming the fraternities for the "retirement" of rowers from a Sprints winning crew is absolutely laughable. You are not only ignorant to reality but nothing more that a shill for Fred and the status quo. I find it hard to believe that 75% of a winning crew would jist quit for no reason other than to join fraternities. They obviously saw something they did not like regarding the future of the program and bailed out. Historically, fraternities and heavyweight crew coexisted very well together, mainly because the rowers were able to balance and prioritize their lives accordingly. I find it hard to believe that serious rowers would be worried about comments posted in this forum. To suggest that comments are being "posted in the locker room" (I guess for motivational purposes?) is a joke, as well as the moronic comment that "they all hate you". However, perhaps their anger and hate can be channelled into a more positive outlet. The best way to keep alums quiet is to go out and win races. While I would never suggest that the oarsmen are not giving 100%, if this forum provides more incentive to get them to teh finish line then so be it. Finally, while you claim that rowing is not a spectator sport, I can remember attracting a loyal crowd of spectators to our races, and the crew appreciated such support. You must remember that alums are the ones paying the freight, and suggesting that we should just go away might hurt the program the next time someone calls me looking for $$ for the crew. My suggestion, Lighty, is to spend more time working on getting your boat faster - the last time I checked the lightweights and freshmen weren't going very fast either!

Lighty, First off, arguing on the internet is like the special olympics. Win or lose you are still retarded. Secondly, Fred may be a good rower/coach, but not for Penn in its current (bent over the barrel) condition. Thanks, Bilsky. Finally, Crew is possibly one of the most Alumni involved sports out there. We pay for the boats, the oars, the riggers, the training trips (even though they are pretty much useless, now). Results are the main deciding factor on the size of the check that gets written. Last time I checked, boats are named after Alumns not current rowers. Currently, results haven't exactly been materializing like the AD had hoped. The varsity 8 is deplorable, the freshmen program is in the crapper (the guys look like bloated Dartmouth guys last time I checked. I do not blame Eric, either. The culture of the varsity is not quite there.), the lightweights barely beat Delaware (last time I checked Chuck Crawford wasn't exactly building a dynasty. Go Blue Hens!), the frosh lights have also been handed a terrible hand. When there is a lack of performance with the type of talent that walks in that door year in and year out, the only one to blame is the coaching staff. Cornell has won IRA's, and their entire team is pretty much walk-ons. The coaches are a beacon from which culture emanates. The culture of the team is not what it should be and until the varsity coaching spots are "replenished", I see a dismal season, followed by an even smaller alumni support network. So post this in the locker room and any rower who reads this, I want it to piss you off. If it doesn't, then you don't care and quit. Whenever I wear Penn Crew gear, I find myself making excuses for your performance. I do not want to associate myself with a losing program. I didn't lose often, and even being associated with it makes me sick to my stomach.

Sounds like the smartest oarsmen are the ones sitting on the sideline watching this train wreck like the rest of us! When the right mix of oarsmen and coaches are put together, a solid crew is formed that rivals any fraternity on campus. The bonds that are formed within a crew, particularly a winning crew, is something special. It is obvious that this does not exist at Penn. The program seems to lack positive direction. I don't know what a "bloated Dartmouth guy" looks like, but they probably don't move a boat fast. Lighty and other Fred acolytes can make excuses, but the stopwatch doesn't lie. These guys aren't fast relative to their competition - that is a fact! For a lowly bus driver, Willie hits it on the head. If the training work hasn't been now, the year is done. The rowers need to get pissed off and let that carry into the summer and next year. If not, then join me on the sideline for a beer! It will take a very special group to resurrect this program - are these individuals currently on the team? Is Fred capable of identifying, recruiting, and developing these guys? If not, the AD better order Penn racing shirts by the truckload! Isn't it ironic that the women may have the fastest boat in the boathouse? If I remember correctly, Fred's wife is one of the women coaches - at least someone in that household is happy! Now back to my beer bong ! Frat Boy

Three Sprints gold medalists from the Freshman 8 two years ago were on the boat that competed in San Diego this Spring, not two. They are extremely dedicated athletes who are persevering despite the challenges facing the program. The others have left rowing for a number of reasons other than your unfounded speculations. Part of the coaching responsibility is to inspire the rowers to increasing levels of success. For the most part, Coach Honebein has failed to do that. Another coaching responsibility is to direct each boat to achieve a consistent and increasingly better technique. Coach Honebein appears to also lack the ability to perform this essential function. Winning races will require more than recruiting the biggest, strongest rowers and telling them to pull hard. Given the limitations imposed by the school, the coaches' ability to even go after the biggest, strongest recruits may be significantly limited. Fred's talents are painfully inconsistent with the realities of Penn's rowing program. Those are the facts. Don't slander the reputations of the fine athletes who chose to row at Penn and who got stuck with this administrative debacle.

[QUOTE id="8d0d3af4-0de7-451d-9264-0ab78096383b"]What were you anticipating Mr. Honebein? You're an average level high school coach at best with mediocre results on the Freshman level. The athletic department needs to notice these results and start the search process for a real coach. How do you justify your old program (OSU) having an increase in speed after you leave? I wish these athletes the best, but fear they are doomed.[/QUOTE] Only 3 of the Sprints winners remain on the team.

Fred After this past weeeknd's beatdown by Columbia, is the crew "pissed off" or just embarrassed? Maybe your sycophant Lighty can let us know!

Somehow, they found a way to widen the margin between them and Columbia at the Blackwell Cup. They lost to Columbia by 18 seconds compared to their 15 second loss at the Child's cup. For those interested in the future, the frosh lost to Yale by 20 seconds and Columbia by 10...frightening.

[QUOTE id="453354fb-12e0-4fc1-8bb7-1bed48b1b8b8"]Somehow, they found a way to widen the margin between them and Columbia at the Blackwell Cup. They lost to Columbia by 18 seconds compared to their 15 second loss at the Child's cup. For those interested in the future, the frosh lost to Yale by 20 seconds and Columbia by 10...frightening.[/QUOTE] Congrats on being part of history....Columbia's first Blackwell cup win in 67 years! At least Penn didn't have to see it...being 18 seconds back, you would have needed binoculars to see Columbia cross the line first! I would logically say that the program has hit bottom, but that may not happen until after we see what happens at the Eastern Sprints. Over/under for the Penn staying within either Harvard or Navy at the Adams cup is 30 seconds.

[QUOTE id="453354fb-12e0-4fc1-8bb7-1bed48b1b8b8"]Somehow, they found a way to widen the margin between them and Columbia at the Blackwell Cup. They lost to Columbia by 18 seconds compared to their 15 second loss at the Child's cup. For those interested in the future, the frosh lost to Yale by 20 seconds and Columbia by 10...frightening.[/QUOTE] 30 seconds is about right. Harvard will be sure to wallop the Quakers this weekend and continue to send the program into the abyss, where Fred Honebein has set course. If there is to be change, the guys on the team should just walk out and then the university could no longer justify Fred's paycheck.

Please "Friends of Rowing" save us. Buy out this coach and get another one . . . oh wait, you tried that already. How's that working out?

It is truly a shame how far Penn Hwt crew has fallen. To let a someone like Bergman go only to replace him with a coach who is no where near as qualified is a terrible mistake. This should be a sign to the Athletic Department that they need to allow more recruiting or Penn Crew will just fade away and become yet another mediocre team. For a program that was exceptional with Coach Bergman for years to handle his situation like they did it is a disgrace.

[QUOTE id="295cb4a7-b9fa-43b6-b7f0-f245e497d9c8"]Please "Friends of Rowing" save us. Buy out this coach and get another one . . . oh wait, you tried that already. How's that working out?[/QUOTE] It's great how these "FIENDS OF ROWING" create this mess and then completely disappear when the crap hits the fan. Where are these guys now? Anyone hear from President Mike P. lately? These guys had all the answers, but in fact set this program back 10 years. If you think this is bad, wait until MIT, Holy Cross, and Rutgers get their shots later on this year.I never thought I would see the day that Columbia would do two horizon jobs to Penn on consecutive weeks.

[QUOTE id="d3aee23f-ca93-4b2d-9012-e1e524b05d11"]It is truly a shame how far Penn Hwt crew has fallen. To let a someone like Bergman go only to replace him with a coach who is no where near as qualified is a terrible mistake. This should be a sign to the Athletic Department that they need to allow more recruiting or Penn Crew will just fade away and become yet another mediocre team. For a program that was exceptional with Coach Bergman for years to handle his situation like they did it is a disgrace.[/QUOTE] You are truly kind to label Penn as "mediocre"....this year is truly a disaster for Penn Crew

This is clearly a terrible time for Penn Crew. After last years showing, Fred and Eric promised us an 'an extremely strong and talented, program building freshman class' multiple times. This was how they would reassure us that 2007 was neither of their faults. So assuming you still have those same athletes, Eric, where are the results? 20 and 30 seconds cannot even be considered 'margins of loss..' they could be short race pieces in themselves! You've told us so many times that the talent would be there, so what are you doing with it? It appears Fred may have some stiff competition for his esteemed position of whipping boy in the boathouse. I only hope these dismal freshman year results will not help to perpetuate the problems of attrition within this already failing program.

Can anyone tell me if the crew is "pissed off" yet? Did Fred get an idea of how fast Columbia, Yale and Princeton are after the butt kickings of the past 2 weeks? Can't you just wait for the fundraising letters to arrive in yoru mailbox? How much money was wasted on that training trip to the dry lake in Georgia?

How come the DP has not had any new articles reporting on the Child's or Blackwell Cups? I would think they would be all over this. I mean, watching these two coach the Penn program into oblivion is like watching Britney Spears parent her child.

[QUOTE id="d9560828-c244-47eb-8edb-899bd1948200"]How come the DP has not had any new articles reporting on the Child's or Blackwell Cups? I would think they would be all over this. I mean, watching these two coach the Penn program into oblivion is like watching Britney Spears parent her child.[/QUOTE] Knowing that the Daily Pennsylvanian is seeing all of these posts from concerned observers and supporters, I'm also surprised they have not covered either of the cup races or attempted to write an article about the programs current state. I'm guessing they are having a hard time finding anyone to talk to; rowers, coaches and alumnus alike. It would be great to get a response on this forum from a DP staff member to let us know what is going on.

The DP tried to run with the ball during the controversy with Stan Bergman's ouster, and I hoped that they would get to the bottom of who was behind that debacle. They seemed to drop the ball (or hit a dead end) before the "friends" were exposed. Not a great day for investigative reporting! That being said, I doubt there is any interest on campus or in the newsroom about a team that to date has been spanked up and down the river by previously inferior crews. It would be like the DP writing about the basketball team losing by 50 points to a team like Swarthmore - not something you want to remind people about. Hell, we can't even get the coach to send out correspondence to the "faithful alumni" to tell them about race results, as he promised at the beginning of the year. Fred would like this nightmare to end, he will have to wait until June!

What a bunch of whiney babies. I hope that the crew and the coaches take a page from the professional athletes, and never read message boards. They don't matter. The Penn program is thin but has good athletes, & you've got enough recruiting slots & financial support to get back in the game. Most of these posts show less insight, judgment, and civility than you would expect from Pennsylvania alums. For what its worth, the view from New England is that both Fred & Eric are keepers. If you're smart you'd stop beating on them, and try to help them. BTW - Columbia beat Yale & Navy last week too, and was 1sec off a #2-rated Princeton. You might consider giving them some credit. Note to Penn Admissions: Canadians and European U23s help.

Here's where I saw the Penn Friends this year... & I wasn't looking too hard. FYI, I'm involved in 2 other rowing groups. Summer jobs for current rowers Summer recruiting trip to U23s & European clubs for Penn frosh coach www.collegeboatclub.com (needs new webmaster) Head of the Charles... alumni boats & dinner Head of the Schuylkill (aborted, but points for effort) NYC & San Diego Dinners honoring Joe Burk (very tasteful) Class Day Educated guess... funding over half of programs' $1MM+ costs... (BTW the only thing the Harvard Friends pay for are athlete travel costs & their Florida trip) Endless discussions w/ Univ, re: more recruiting slots, admissions & financial aid That's what I was able to see

What were you anticipating Mr. Honebein? You're an average level high school coach at best with mediocre results on the Freshman level. The athletic department needs to notice these results and start the search process for a real coach. How do you justify your old program (OSU) having an increase in speed after you leave? I wish these athletes the best, but fear they are doomed.