No boys allowed?

Penn students work out at Pottruck Fitness Center. Last month, Harvard University implemented six women-only gym hours per week, but the Athletics Department says such a policy is unlikely to be implemented at Penn.

Engineering freshman Dara Elass wears long sleeves, pants and a burkha, a head scarf traditionally worn by Muslim women, every time she pays a visit to Pottruck. She follows traditional Islamic law, which requires that women cover up in the presence of men - even at the gym.

But if Penn follows in Harvard University's footsteps, students like Elass might be able to shed their layers.

Last month, Harvard implemented women-only hours at its Quadrangle Recreation Athletic Center in an effort to allow Muslim women to exercise in a more carefree setting. For six hours each week, only women are permitted to enter the facility - a rule that makes some males on campus unhappy.

"They're commandeering a community space," Harvard sophomore Adam Moss said in an article that appeared in The Harvard Crimson.

The new policy, which is an "experimental situation" according to Harvard associate athletics director Jeremy Gibson, will be evaluated in the coming months and the athletics continue the policy or make it permanent.

Though Elass acknowledged that all-women gym hours might be "inconvenient" for others, she said such a policy would make her feel far more comfortable.

"I would have more freedom to take off my scarf and wear short sleeves," she said. "It would just make life easier."

Elass said she never went to the gym last semester because she couldn't get used to the idea of working out in front of males. Her physical-education classes in Bahrain were always segregated by gender.

"I don't feel comfortable stretching, sweating or exercising in front of guys," she said.

Athletic Department spokesman Mike Mahoney said no one has approached Penn Athletics yet with such an idea, and added that women-only hours would be "hard to pull off" at Pottruck .

He pointed out first that Harvard's QRAC was one of several different fitness centers on its campus, while Pottruck is Penn's primary workout facility.

Men on the street would still be able to view users during women-only hours due to the building's architecture and glass windows.

Though Mahoney said the department would be open to discussing the issue, he added that it would be a "difficult juggling act" to carry out such an initiative based on the original purpose of the building.

"When Pottruck was opened, it was a center that was open to the entire community and in that sense it was supposed to bring people together - black, white, Asian, Muslim, male and female," he said.

College junior and Muslim Students Association vice president Amanda El-Dakhakhni said that many Muslim students and faculty members have suggested that such a policy be implemented.

"I think there's a significant number of women that would take advantage of it," she said.

Although there has not yet been a push for a policy similar to Harvard's, "it's definitely wanted," she said. "This might be the next step of making [the MSA] known on campus."

El-Dakhakhni suggested making one level of Pottruck women-only for a few hours instead of closing the entire facility, an idea that Mahoney said would likely be unfeasible because "the building is open for everybody."

Comments (65)

Closing all of Pottruck to men for any period of time? Unacceptable. Unless, of course, they're willing to reduce the cost (us grad students have to pay for that place if we want to use it) proportionally for men. Closing just one room? That's fine. I have to wonder if there's a Title IX issue here? Could that be extended to cover fitness centers?

i actually didn't know about the single sex hours at the pool and dragged a male friend with me to swim early one weekend only for him to be escorted out of the pool area...it's quite inconvenient - not everyone know about the hours and since we only have pottruck (no one uses hutch except athletes who are already down by the field) - it's already crowded ALL the time - closing off an area will just make it that much more crowded

Well, I propose that my religion begins causing me problems in the engineering buildings during the day. Not being able to lounge around in my underwear drinking beer is very upsetting to my religion. I propose we kick out minors and women from the first floor of the engineering buildings for an hour. This ensures that I will be able to lounge around in my boxers and drink all the beer I want for that hour.

I personally don't feel this goes far enough. For example, many people walk dogs on and around campus. Islam considers these animals to be dirty and it is forbidden for Muslims to be near them. It isn't fair to require Muslim students to be in the presence of dirty forbidden animals. I don't think it would be unreasonable for pets to be banned from a 2-3 block radius surrounding campus. Also, there are establishments which sell alcohol on campus, which is forbidden by Islam. It is wrong to require Muslim students to be in the presence of such decadence while they attend university. These establishments should be closed or at least moved out of sight of Muslim students.

I'll support this ridiculous idea as soon as public facilities in Islamic countries start allowing Western and other non-Muslim women to drive cars, wear t-shirts and shorts, and hold hands with men they are not married to -- even if only for a few hours a day. Attending college, especially one with such international prominence, is supposed to be an opportunity to see how the world works -- the world does not shut down for a few hours a day to accomodate a small handful of people.

The student in the article says she's used to exercising in gender-segregated facilities in Bahrain. Well, in that case, go back to Bahrain. THIS IS AMERICA. People's free exercise of religion should stop where their religion infringes upon other individuals' rights.

Why does it always have to be about grand principles and such unyielding absolute views in a case like this? Why not just be practical and try it, if only in a very small space to begin with, and if it doesnt work, end it? Certain measure are obviously unfeasible, like the ridiculous measures Barak proposes (and yes I understand his points were obviously rhetorical). But if this aids a group of people and doesn't bother anyone else, who cares?

She has the freedom not to wear her outfit. Now they need to make "special gym time" for Jews, Christians, Men, Hindus, Buddhists, Transgender, Gay, Lesbians....

Do we not learn from history? One of the first thing the Nazi did was restrict pool hours for non-Arians. This sets the precedence that the Muslim religion is more important that any other religion. It�?s the camel nose of taking over by making seemingly reasonable request. Yet it never stops. First is was foot baths, now its separate hours, next it will be special prayer rooms, the outcome will be Islamic or Shari Law. Don�?t forget that 80% of the Mosques in the USA preach anti-American rhetoric.

[QUOTE id="1571bfe0-ca41-4ed2-93af-ba796cff98e0"]Why does it always have to be about grand principles and such unyielding absolute views in a case like this? Why not just be practical and try it, if only in a very small space to begin with, and if it doesnt work, end it? Certain measure are obviously unfeasible, like the ridiculous measures Barak proposes (and yes I understand his points were obviously rhetorical). But if this aids a group of people and doesn't bother anyone else, who cares?[/QUOTE] The school has to consider the needs of other groups now. Lesbians may wish to work out without men present. Gays may wish to work out exclusively without straight people being around. Christians may wish to exercise without non Christians saying things that might be deemed offensive to their religion. Overweight people may be offended exercising with those more fit and lean.

The hypocrisy of the Islamists who are demanding that we all join them in their 7th-century lifestyle is breathtaking. If the women who are citing their faith to demand female-only facilities truly devout muslims, do they also refrain from going anywhere in public unless they're accompanied by a male relative? If the answer to that question is no, then they are engaging in taqiyah.

harvard should lbo penn.

If the school is going to do this it may be that a good look at the area would need to be done. Shops in the vicinity selling products offensive to Muslims should be warned. Music that's played to where it could be heard should also be banned. Non Muslim women should be warned about wearing revealing clothing on Campus. Men could be removed or limited from classes that Muslim women attend, or Separate classes for Muslim women only could be initiated. Discussions and press harmful or discourteous to Islamic values should be prohibited. Separate toilet facilities should be installed on the campus to accommodate Muslims. Separate laws for Muslims should also be initiated. The above regulations have had great success in the UK.

[QUOTE id="1571bfe0-ca41-4ed2-93af-ba796cff98e0"]Why does it always have to be about grand principles and such unyielding absolute views in a case like this? Why not just be practical and try it, if only in a very small space to begin with, and if it doesnt work, end it? Certain measure are obviously unfeasible, like the ridiculous measures Barak proposes (and yes I understand his points were obviously rhetorical). But if this aids a group of people and doesn't bother anyone else, who cares?[/QUOTE] The problem is that this sets a precedent now. How long before Muslims begin to complaint about bacon being serve in the cafeteria? And why are Barak's measures unfeasible? What gives Muslims the right to expect being accommodated and not other groups? You give up a little, soon you will be giving up everything before you know it.

[QUOTE id="8bf69def-808b-4e37-9184-c6ecfc4b802e"]What the heck is "unfeasable" about letting the Moslems use the top floor fitness room for an hour a day?[/QUOTE] Would you feel the same if a group of Christians demanded exclusive access to the gym? If not, then you're a hypocrite. Or is it OK to grant it to the Muslims, precisely because they are not Christians and are probably a member of a racial minority?

[QUOTE id="e2ea5c8f-cbee-4fe3-9d28-d9fd9f561f98"]She has the freedom not to wear her outfit. Now they need to make "special gym time" for Jews, Christians, Men, Hindus, Buddhists, Transgender, Gay, Lesbians....[/QUOTE] She isn't asking for just Muslim hours, but FEMALE hours. There are many women on campus that are non-muslim who would definitely feel better about working out without the presence of men. She is not asking for special treatment, and probably was not just thinking of herself, but for all women as a whole.

[QUOTE id="e2ea5c8f-cbee-4fe3-9d28-d9fd9f561f98"]She has the freedom not to wear her outfit. Now they need to make "special gym time" for Jews, Christians, Men, Hindus, Buddhists, Transgender, Gay, Lesbians....[/QUOTE] She might be asking for female hours, but the reason is that as A MUSLIM she feels uncomfortable. That makes this an matter of her religion not her gender. The fact that other females benefit from it does not matter.

[QUOTE id="8bf69def-808b-4e37-9184-c6ecfc4b802e"]What the heck is "unfeasable" about letting the Moslems use the top floor fitness room for an hour a day?[/QUOTE] Just say no to the misogynist death cult. We've spent 2500 years creating Western Civilization built on the premise of natural born rights, and the PC crowd is willing to give it all up, "so as not to offend." Its just nauseating to see people willfully roll over to tryanny of any sort.

i am appalled at the ignorance of this statement: Don't forget that 80% of the Mosques in the USA preach anti-American rhetoric. do you truly believe this????

It saddens me to read all of the vitriolic commentary posted on this board. Rhetoric is employed by many people here to mask racist and xenophobic leanings. Being a Muslim and an American are not mutually exclusive, in the same way that being an Orthodox Jew and an American are not mutually exclusive. Instead, bigotry and venom are un-American. Much of what is written here is the result of fear, which is also un-American. The question does not hinge on whether men's rights are being violated; Muslims pay gym fees as well. Rather, should the University of Pennsylvania deprive Muslim and Jewish women of their right to use paid-for facilities? For many religious people, adhering to the principles of their faiths is not a matter of choice, but an imperative. Is the University acting ethically when it presents observant Muslim and Jewish women with a choice between faith and material rights? In any case, I suspect that most of the prior posts were posted not because of lofty principles, but in lieu of them. Tremble America - the Muslims/Mexicans/Jews/Italians/Catholics/Blacks/Homosexuals are coming.

Come on fellas, we all know that girls at Penn could use the exercise. But on another serious note (because girls at Penn could seriously use the workout), why should Penn cave into Muslim women? This will only continue the inequality women experience in Muslim countries. Instead of caving to Muslim female interests, these women should embrace American qualities and enjoy the freedom to wear whatever they want in public. Empowering women in America is the only way that these women will be able to empower their counterparts in the Arab world to seek equality. Is there any Muslim woman out there that think they are treated correctly? If they want better treatment then they need to become empowered and stop adhering to their discriminating religious requirements. Muslim women are the most abused physically, emotionally, and mentally in the world.

[QUOTE id="05034787-1057-4754-9408-13484ffdf7df"]i am appalled at the ignorance of this statement: Don't forget that 80% of the Mosques in the USA preach anti-American rhetoric. do you truly believe this????[/QUOTE] I am appalled that you didn't know that. Did you also know that non- Moslems have been known to enter mosques (regardless of the prohibitions against it - it can be done) and the non-muslim world actually is aware of what happens in some mosques? Perhaps not eighty percent, but to suggest that the majority of mosques DON«T EVER make political statements condemning the west would be apeshit absurd.

[QUOTE id="ac039bcd-3026-4419-a046-cb0d7868e69b"]It saddens me to read all of the vitriolic commentary posted on this board. Rhetoric is employed by many people here to mask racist and xenophobic leanings. Being a Muslim and an American are not mutually exclusive, in the same way that being an Orthodox Jew and an American are not mutually exclusive. Instead, bigotry and venom are un-American. Much of what is written here is the result of fear, which is also un-American. The question does not hinge on whether men's rights are being violated; Muslims pay gym fees as well. Rather, should the University of Pennsylvania deprive Muslim and Jewish women of their right to use paid-for facilities? For many religious people, adhering to the principles of their faiths is not a matter of choice, but an imperative. Is the University acting ethically when it presents observant Muslim and Jewish women with a choice between faith and material rights? In any case, I suspect that most of the prior posts were posted not because of lofty principles, but in lieu of them. Tremble America - the Muslims/Mexicans/Jews/Italians/Catholics/Blacks/Homosexuals are coming.[/QUOTE] I agree. The Muslim woman may have been asking for Women only time. I am sure she would have no problems working out with Lesbian women, Jewish women, atheist women, Trangender women etc...Nor would her family mind. Many Muslim Lesbians that reside here in Flagstaff adhere to the Hijab. They simply prefer women over men for marriage and lovers and practice Islamic values with women and exclude men. I believe it's time for Muslim women to be exposed to different lifestyles and ways of thinking. The Gym may be the perfect place for this.

Go back to Bahrain - this is America and in this country, we don't exclude others so that you can practice your religion. By the way, when are moderate Muslim leaders going to come out and condemn the daily terrorism that's committed in the name of their religion? Just wondering.

[QUOTE id="28ae6425-0471-4ed5-a761-796f54539eb8"]Go back to Bahrain - this is America and in this country, we don't exclude others so that you can practice your religion. By the way, when are moderate Muslim leaders going to come out and condemn the daily terrorism that's committed in the name of their religion? Just wondering.[/QUOTE] I personally know this girl, and she is American, for your information.