College pushes for minor in business*

Correction appended

Penn students might soon be able to find a business education outside Huntsman Hall, but without Wharton's blessing.

College administrators, along with the Dean's Advisory Board, are working on a plan to create a new, business-based minor called B-FLAT - Budgeting, Finance, Leadership and Teamwork.

But over at Wharton, officials don't see the point.

"I think it provides a disservice to the school," said Georgette Chapman Phillips, Wharton's vice dean of Undergraduate Education. "If you are going to take all these business classes, why aren't you doing it in" Wharton?

The minor, first proposed last year, is designed to provide college students with a comprehensive understanding of the business world.

If passed, it will likely consist of four core courses yet to be determined and two electives. It would be offered through the Fels School of Government.

Phillips called the proposed course load a "dilution" of the rigorous business education that Wharton already offers.

Still, College officials say, it won't be interchangeable with a Wharton education.

College Dean Dennis DeTurck said Wharton classes are taught as part of a larger series of courses designed to provide a complete education. As a result, introductory classes in subjects like marketing or finance provide an education that is "in depth but not comprehensive."

College senior Elie Gittler, a member of the Dean's Advisory Board - a group of students that serves as a liaison between students and DeTurck - added that the minor should "complement the college education" and "will not substitute for the professional, technical and quantitative knowledge offered in the Wharton curriculum."

Gittler also said many students view Wharton classes as "too difficult and not worth their time."

Though the minor may be well suited to some, students with an intense interest in business seem likely to stick with Wharton.

College sophomore Nicole Harris, for example, said she would consider the B-FLAT minor if she could apply Wharton courses to fulfill some of its requirements. If not, she said, she would prefer Wharton's courses.

Wharton and College sophomore Elizabeth Volynsky, currently pursuing a dual degree in Wharton and the College, has similar preferences.

Even if the College had offered a minor before she transferred, Volynsky said, she probably would have opted to switch regardless.

In the meantime, College and Fels officials are working to develop the core courses further before presenting a final plan to the faculty.

And despite Wharton's opposition, those involved with B-FLAT remain positive about its potential.

"It's the kind of thing that many students have said they see great value in," Kettl said.

Correction: Due to an editing error, the first reference Dr. Don Kettl, Director of the the Fels Institute of Government, was inadvertently omitted.

Comments (13)

Kettl is Dr. Don Kettl, Director of the the Fels Institute of Government. Looks like a quote by him earlier in the piece got cut.

The minor being "a disservice to the school" is BS. It would be a disservice to WHARTON in deterring people from wanting to be in The Wharton School, but a service to the One UNIVERSITYas a whole by encouraging more students to take courses in various fields. Phillips is a douche in her comment asking "If you are going to take all these business classes, why aren't you doing it in Wharton?". Um, maybe because some students are not solely and/or primarily interested in business? That logic would also argue that there is NO point at ALL in any minor or certificate or even electives.

Gittler also said many students view Wharton classes as "too difficult and not worth their time." what? this is the first time I've heard this. The toughest classes at Penn undergrad are all in the College and SEAS (MATH, CHEM, PHYS, BIO, Engineering)... possibly Nursing also... hmm, PChem or "Foundations of Teamwork and Leadership" (MGMT 652)? c'mon. B-school academics everywhere are pretty much fluff- exceptions at Wharton: FNCE 206, 207, OPIM 311 and Accounting.

I'm not sure if I understand all the comments above, or the quotes in the article, but the whole thing sounds kind of dumb. A business class at Penn, not offered by Wharton, will probably be watered down fluff and devalue the College degree. If you want to take a business class, take it at Wharton, just the way Wharton students take their non-business electives and requirements, e.g. econ and calculus at the College.

Dude, is this for real? They can already take marketing 101, even upper level management classes if they want to. One of my good friends had a real interest in business, took consulting to growth companies with me and several other Wharton classes (AS WHARTON CLASSES) and now he works for Booz Allen. Georgette Phillips (formerly Poindexter, baller prof. of real estate law) is completely right. Proposed B-FLAT program gets a B- rating in my book; if college students think our coursework is too hard and not worth their time, they don't have to take it. And they can continue to be liberal and lazy working as social workers.

Wharton alum, while I agree with your argument that students wanting to take business classes should take them in Wharton, the final part of your comment struck me as completely unnecessary and offensive. Your assumption that College students are lazy and that social workers don't work hard are completely misguided, and could only be the product of a limited worldview where utmost value is placed on making money for yourself and others like you, which I personally find disgusting. Social workers labor to help others obviously less fortunate than you and your dismissal of their work is part of the reason that so many problems in our society continue to exist.

Liberal, not lazy- Thank you for your sanity and your eloquence.

The cost of 1 year at Penn is now $50,000. Does it really make sense to have redundant courses? Why not use the resources more efficiently and perhaps save the students and their parents a few bucks. Should Wharton have their own liberal arts courses? Should the engineering school have their own math and basic sicence courses? The University leadership needs to step in and bring some sanity to this [QUOTE id="2b20192d-93ac-4105-93a2-302d4531763b"]Wharton alum, while I agree with your argument that students wanting to take business classes should take them in Wharton, the final part of your comment struck me as completely unnecessary and offensive. Your assumption that College students are lazy and that social workers don't work hard are completely misguided, and could only be the product of a limited worldview where utmost value is placed on making money for yourself and others like you, which I personally find disgusting. Social workers labor to help others obviously less fortunate than you and your dismissal of their work is part of the reason that so many problems in our society continue to exist.[/QUOTE]

Elie Gitler's comment that many [SAS] students find Wharton classes to be "too difficult and not worth their time" is absurd. I know PLENTY of College students--myself included--who have taken Wharton classes for the purpose of learning more about business from the top profs in the country. Some Wharton classes (OPIM 101) are extremely difficult as compared to the avg. SAS class, while others (LGST 210) are significantly easier. Taking classes in another school is worth everyone's time (if they're interested) and the planned minor is long overdue (although I, too, question the efficiency and logic of having it be comprised of non-Wharton courses).

This IS NOT a business minor! It is only partially business, which is why there are some college courses. No one is getting a minor in business by only taking 3 classes in Wharton and 3 in the College. There WON'T be "business classes in the College."

It is absurd and shameful that Wharton will not play along with this plan, instead continuing to wall itself off from the university. It is simply wasteful for the School of Arts & Sciences to expend precious resources in order to needlessly duplicate (at lower quality) classes that already exist. Whatever happened to ONE UNIVERSITY? I certainly hope it did not die with President Meyerson. Gutmann's newly installed Dean should be overriding this immediately.

It may be redundant and a waste of resources to offer b school subject matter courses in the College. That doesn't mean the College cannot create a minor or a certificate program utilizing Wharton classes and/or faculty to teach business subject matter unless politics get in the way. Other schools offer business certificates, e.g., Northwestern in conjunction with the Kellogg School. At Northwestern its a little less political b/c there's no undergrad business program which competes with the certificate programs. [QUOTE id="bd0f81b9-66c5-4f29-ae9d-30d846fc0cfa"]It is absurd and shameful that Wharton will not play along with this plan, instead continuing to wall itself off from the university. It is simply wasteful for the School of Arts & Sciences to expend precious resources in order to needlessly duplicate (at lower quality) classes that already exist. Whatever happened to ONE UNIVERSITY? I certainly hope it did not die with President Meyerson. Gutmann's newly installed Dean should be overriding this immediately.[/QUOTE]

I'm sure to not have exclusive copyright to this idea, but here it goes: Should a Law School, Medical School, Vet, Dent, or Pre-any of the preceeding take a few classes on: Management, how to run and start an office, how to interview employees, benefits, estate management, etc? You're darn tootin' they should! Has the University made this classes a recommended option? Have these professionals struggled starting a practice because the school didn't leverage all that is has to offer to assure the success of it's graduates? Yes, it's One University, and students should be able to take the classes they find will support their future career, or increase their global awareness. I hope those attending school explore all the University has to offer: leave business to the business School, the animals to the Vet school, etc. Go Quakers!

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