Yeh, right. This is where I want my tuition dollars to go and support. Two sluts, and one slapping one another. Abuse isn't fun, and this behavior is demoralizing women. Even if they are lesbians. It's demeaning to all women. Shenandoah, Medical Pittsburgh Pa

Calling someone else a slut is abuse, not BDSM. La verite

Let's not forget that people choose to engage, fully consented, knew the risks involved and could say "stop" at any point. This picture doesn't show the years these two women have known each other and the 30 minute presentation students had about this activity. Phil Cochetti, Kinky Karnival Organizer cochetti@sas.upenn.edu

Shenandoah, it would only be demeaning if one or both parties was uncomfortable or did not consent to what was going on. If YOU were uncomfortable with it (and clearly you are) it WOULD be demeaning if someone practiced BDSM with you. Because this particular couple has spent years negotiating their relationship, what they practice is NOT demeaning to either of them, so you should probably just live and let live. No one forced you into Kinky Karnival last night, and if you don't like it, you're perfectly free not to go. Other students like myself, however, are interested in BDSM, and I for one am proud that the University (like many others in Europe, Australia, and even *gasp* other parts of the US) is at least providing a forum for people to discuss and learn more about BDSM. With that said, why do I think that you're really just a forums troll? it is not demeaning

It has already been established that "Shenandoah" has no Penn affiliation, and in fact thought for several months that this was Penn State. Please disregard his/her moronic posts. (Bored loser? Crazy Evangelical?) Shenandoah is a Non-Penn Troll, Student Penn

Sorry LGBT folks, but I don't think this picture is going to help gain you respect on this campus. Not that I don't respect you, but there are better ways to show and gain support than events like this. nice try

It's disappointing to see that the newspaper went for shock value instead of truly communicating what this event was about. It was an evening of exploration for students who would not normally be able to find an outlet for such activities. The picture displayed was an example of different kinds of play we consensually indulge in, not the basis of my demonstration, which was flogging and caning. This photo can not depict the love I feel for this girl, or the emotional exchange that is such a wonderful part of our relationship. Jessica

It's saddens me that as women we attempt to tear each other down in these ways. As a woman who identifies as a feminist I personally practice the BDSM lifestyle I engage in a way that is not demoralizing to women. We are two women who choose this relationship. We are equals who respect each other and we play with people who we believe carry the same mentality. The gift I choose to give her of my submission is just that, a gift. I give it to her because she treats it and receives it in that way. This may not be your choice or your preference, but there were a number of your peers last night that appreciated the space provided to learn and experience something new in a safe environment. The Kinky Karnival can not be summed up by one face slapping photo. It does nothing to speak to the workshops, or the tenderness with which we all came to the subject. Feminism taught me I have the right to my choices and my decisions. For me that choice involves engaging in BDSM relationships because I find them rewarding and enjoyable, physically and emotionally. I hope one day you can feel the same freedom. Sincerely, dawn marie Ms. Philadelphia Leather 2005/06 i'm the blonde in the picture

In typical bad-press sensationalistic trash-everything-not-mainstream DP fashion, this picture was deliberately chosen by its editorial staff to wreck an otherwise productive foray into SAFE consensual adult exploration. Shame on DP for not reporting the FACTS as they witnessed, rather than some sliver of experience that, out of context, is akin to yelling fire in a crowded theater or claiming that the Pope is dead on national television a week or more before it happens. DP staff -- how about printing some factual news every now and again? You've be doing a service to your reading public, rather than being birdcage liner or supermarket checkout line gossip rag material. Don't you feel that there's already enough filth in Philthadelphia????? Pandora QPenn Kinky Karnival Educator 2005 and Ms World Leather 2004 Ms Philadelphia Leather 2004 Pandora, Healthcare Prof Philadelphia, PA mswl2004@aol.com

If Dawn Marie is willing to identify herself and even elaborate on what she gets out of the domination shown in the picture, I say her honesty is very brave. It's actually quite impressive. Philadelphia Alum

Well this is funny. In the struggle (which many equate to the civil rights struggle that blacks went through) to gain mainstream acceptance in society and gain rights that traditionalists like myself would not hand over, like gay marriage and gay adoption, what does QPENN turn to? An educational speech? A thought-provoking debate between to qualified speakers on each side? Nahhhhh....QPENN turns to a bizarre freak-show carnival with dominatrixes and whips and chains! OK! I'm convinced! I'm ready to scrap my beliefs about traditional marriage and let these two girls marry! OR NOT. And people wonder why a majority of America, including myself, is wary of the homosexual agenda in this country. Its because you throw your sexuality in people's faces with parades and freak show carnivals. Do what you want behind your closed doors, but I'll thank you to keep those activities confined there. Roman, Nova law Philly

This is not a helpful coverage of the event. From this picture I know nothing about Kinky Karnival, other then that it happened. Since the DP is the only newspaper in town I have no where else to become informed. Poor coverage like this is why UPenn students absolutely must create another daily newspaper. Name Namerson

Roman, QPEnn choose to give this alternative sexuality a highlight as part of its celebration, but BDSM is hardly a Queer issue. QPenn is a time to celebrate things that are not deemed part of the mainstream and it was progressive enough in its own right to include "kink". There is a large community of heterosexuals who choose to engage in these same activities. Should they be denied the right to marriage or have children? Who are you or I to deny anybody that right? What about the events the Daily Pennsylvanian chose not to cover? Mocktails with Intergenerational Links, Queer People of Color Dinner Discussion, Gay and Greek Discussion, Helie Lee's talk about living as another gender. Did you go to those as a way of challenging your "traditional" beliefs? I don't see what any of it has to do with my rights as a citizen to get married and share my life with whomever I choose. Sincerely, dawn marie Ms. Philadelphia Leather 2005/06 the blonde in the picture

What a goddamned waste of this university's money, resources, energy, effort, time...the list goes on. I am embarrassed for myself and for my university that this bullshit is glorified. Penn, like just about all of academia, needs to get its priorities straight and stop advocating filth that detracts from the university's credibility, among just about everything else. Disgusted, Student Penn

Photo-coverage like this makes me thankful to never have been associated with your little yellow newspaper. Evi Numen, photographer

To disgusted: If you're so disgusted, why dont you transfer you narrowminded sorry ass out of penn to some shit ass conservative school where you belong? Personally, i'm embarrassed penn lets in people like you... And dont call us filth just coz our lifestyles are different from yours. sadomasochist, student philly

And people wonder why a majority of America, including myself, is wary of the homosexual agenda in this country. Its because you throw your sexuality in people's faces with parades and freak show carnivals. Do what you want behind your closed doors, but I'll thank you to keep those activities confined there. Once again the "throwing in your face" argument. Please find a new one, this is old hat and not accurate at all. We might be queer but we ain't dumb nor unable to show you how downright lazy this old conversation is. Come on get a new one, think for yourself in your homophobia, give us some new ideas to tear apart in your so called world of excuses labeled the "homosexual agenda". I'm bored of the same old mono-thought liners. Ya know what, most people who practice bdsm are not queer, they are just like you, straight, boring, not very creative at times... They just like a little slap and tickle and don't ever call it kinky or bdsm. Cuz if they did they would have to question their beliefs. bored yawning queer, academic canebutch@yahoo.com

bored yawning queer: Yeah people like a lil smack and a tickle here and there, but most don't make a public spectacle out of it. They go to some private den or whatever. QPENN on the other hand makes it one of its glorious headline acts and gets it front-page DP coverage. So much for not throwing it in my face. But hey, if the arguments bore you, then that's good. Maybe the agenda will finally die out out of boredom. Blond in pic: the problem w/ your arg is that it is not you or me who gets to define who you can or can't marry. Its society that does. And society has defined marriage as man-woman since the beginning of recorded history. What makes you or any one else in QPENN think that you have the right to change historic traditions that have existed not only at the founding of our country, but since the beginning of human civilization? Either way, if you do want to change that, headline events like the Kinky Karnival and pictures of girl on girl violence are unlikely to do the trick. Roman, Nova law Philly

What makes you or any one else in QPENN think that you have the right to change historic traditions that have existed not only at the founding of our country, but since the beginning of human civilization? Roman, it is ignorant attitudes like yours that prevent any progress from ever being made. If this is your 'argument', it's pretty laughable. What is 'normal' is not always right. For instance, where I live, it is considered perfectly normal for parents to host children's birthday parties, get trashed out drunk with their adult friends, and completely ignore the children. No one questions this where I live -- it is a norm. Yet it is an unethical norm. Similarly, just because it is a norm for our society to disapprove of gay marriage does not make it morally right. Decisions like Brown v. Board of Education weren't a "vote", Roman, and if slavery was up on a referendum in 1850, I doubt that the public would have pushed for abolition. My point? Sometimes, it's more important to stand up for the principle of the matter even when a bunch of people disagree. If our rights were defined by popular approval, there would be no such thing as protection of the minority as exists in our United States Constitution. The fact is there is no really good reason why two people in a loving human relationship cannot join in the partnership of marriage. That doesn't mean that Baptists or other Christian/Jewish/Islamic groups have to marry gays and lesbians; that would impose on religious freedom. What it does mean is that groups that are willing to marry gays and lesbians should be allowed to do so. If you're going to be dissuaded from considering the gravity of basic marriage rights for the LGBT population with some bondage pics and a little 'slap and tickle', than you possess a weak, feeble mind. to Roman

Dearest Roman, "bored yawning queer: Yeah people like a lil smack and a tickle here and there, but most don't make a public spectacle out of it. They go to some private den or whatever. QPENN on the other hand makes it one of its glorious headline acts and gets it front-page DP coverage. So much for not throwing it in my face. But hey, if the arguments bore you, then that's good. Maybe the agenda will finally die out out of boredom. Blond in pic: the problem w/ your arg is that it is not you or me who gets to define who you can or can't marry. Its society that does. And society has defined marriage as man-woman since the beginning of recorded history. What makes you or any one else in QPENN think that you have the right to change historic traditions that have existed not only at the founding of our country, but since the beginning of human civilization? Either way, if you do want to change that, headline events like the Kinky Karnival and pictures of girl on girl violence are unlikely to do the trick." You in Law school? Please go work for the right after you graduate please... because you can't think your way out of a paperbag that's stuck on your head. I'm not going to do the statistics on hetro-normative images & interactions in our mainstream press, movies, out on the street, in clubs, bars, dancehalls, parades vs queer images in all those locations. You can't do math because you don't notice or choose to not notice that most images, events, etc around "kinky" alternative, whatever you choose to call it is geared towards the "straight" crowd. Again like many people who use the term "homosexual agenda" you get stuck in kindergarten vocabulary and ideas that don't live up to reality. You have to be simple because complexity might just make you think. And for your information, supposedly this country and it's foundation is based on what you and me and the blonde define as our rights under the constitution. Some people might be a little slow in understanding that if the majority of people decide that gay marriage is okay then the laws will reflect that. IT's called democracy. OH I know how much the court system is queer and radical based. Full of liberals who throw away conservative's rights to make people live in the stone ages. But hey, it's called the separation of powers in our democracy. really bored and yawning now canebutch@yahoo.com

roman: slavery was around at the beginning of mankind and the founding of this country. how dare Lincoln change a historic tradition? see where i'm comin' from? i dont give a shit about the whole gay argument . . . i like punishing vagina on a nightly basis. but people crying that the sky is falling down because traditions are not being upheld are the real enemies of society. think about how fucked up the world would be for anyone other than a rich male if we were still following the traditions since the beginning of mankid, which you so preciously protect. disgusted: just because academia doesn't have YOUR priorities, doesn't mean their priorities aren't straight (no pun intended). i hardly think that Penns "credibility" is taking a hit on this one . . . last time i checked, Penn held a pretty esteemed reputation. digusted/roman

This picture made me laugh a little bit. The caption states, "as part of a week of events celebrating LGBT culture" And the picture is two people two people slapping each other. Nothing says "high culture" quite like two people slapping each other in the face. Considering the number of homosexuals in the arts couldn't there have been perhaps a better display of "events celebrating LGBT culture" Another Alum, healthcare Washington, DC

http://www.dailypennsylvanian.com/vnews/display.v/ART/424a5a4feaf2c?in_archive=1 Here's an article from last year, karnival goer cirque de penn

I may be mistaken, but did Ms. Philadelphia Leather write her obviously intelligent and composed replies before the article was published? Because it appears that she had her finger a little bit too far up her nose, since part of her brain, or perhaps the whole thing, is on its tip! My Mom would have backhanded me, too, if I had picked my nose out in public. C'mon guys, lighten up. Chacun Ã?Ã? son goÃ?Ã?t. No harm, no foul. Stacy, student Slapperville

Stacy, hon, there IS no article. there's one misleading photograph. that's why people are pissed. but please, show off your ignorance even more if you like. it's quite amusing. dear stacy