While Jon's theory is basically correct he's losing the point in what is being said here. I have a question for you Jon. If African Americans make up 50 percent of the population of the city of Philadelphia, what percentage of that group is committing 95 percent of the crime in Philadelphia. Also, if you know this, if you ask the average black person walking down the street if someone in their family was or is incarcerated, what percentage would that be of the African American population? Elliott Foster

To "Just a thought"- As far as I know, 50% of the Philly population is not committing 95% of the crime. If so, that would mean that there are approximately 700,000 people commiting these crimes. That seems a WEE bit high to me, even without the exact statistics in front of me. Oh, I suppose you meant that 50% of the city is african american. You have graciously transferred the blame of african american criminals to all african americans... how sweet. I suppose we can blame all of the billion Muslims of the world for 9/11 while we're at it. A simple lesson in percentages. If X% of "Activity Y" is committed by "Group A" does NOT mean that 100% (or anything close to it) of Group A necessarily engages in "Activity Y." Furthermore, why do you feel it appropriate to blame ALL african americans for crime? If you say that "they are the ones committing the crimes," then I ask you the following: Suppose all of these criminals were Christian, should we blame all Christians? Suppose all of the criminals were tall, would we blame tall people? Suppose all of these criminals wore hoodies, should we blame hoodie wearers? Just because criminals share a particular characteristic whether it be race, height, religion, etc. does NOT mean that people with that characteristic support crime. Jon, Student Philly

- correct. Thks Stacy........ simply put kycheber@optonline.net

jon is not being realistic. just a thought is not saying all black people are bad. hes just saying that there should be more accountability within the black community. i agree. Stacy

Corporate white criminals are not shooting people on campus. Corporate white criminals are not robbing students with guns and assaulting them. The message that "just a thought" is conveying is real. Jon, you are wrong. A reader of the DP

Just a Thought- Why let a silly thing like real numbers get in the way of making an argument? You FEEL like you are right, so why let FACTS disrupt your thinking. You said "Why are 50% of the population of this city committing 95 % of the crime?" My response was that 50% of the population is NOT committing crime in Philly, unless you believe that 700,000 or so people in Philly are committing crime. Note: You are the one who started to quote (or make up) numbers. You chose to find a common characteristic among criminals and transfer your very justified anger against criminals to a completely unjustified anger against the innocent MAJORITY of people who happen to share this characteristic. The majority of serial killers and corporate criminals are white, is it an obligation on all white people to apologize for the actions of those individuals simply because they share the same skin color? My bet is that the last two posters have never thought ONCE about having to take responsibility when someone or someones of their race/religion/etc. has committed reprehensible acts. My point (which obviously went over the head of some) was that just because someone I've never met shares my skin color, religion, birthplace, does NOT mean that I am more responsible for his or her actions any more than anyone else in the world. You said this argument was ridiculous, but failed to say why. I never justified crime or said that community leaders should not get involved. I never claimed that most crime is instead committed by whites or anything like that. All I said is that transferring blame for the recent crime to the entire black population of Philly is a SHAME and, yes, racist. Go out to the communities of Philadelphia, talk with people. ALMOST ALL people in these neighborhoods want safer communities, guns and drugs off the streets, better schools, etc. OUR WEST PHILLY NEIGHBORS ARE NOT YOUR ENEMIES! The VAST majority of them are as ideologically remote from criminals as you or I. Physically though... well... I guess that's all that matters to some. Jon, Student Philly

Why is it that some individuals get so offended and assume the race card when (I assume) all other people (white AND black AND Chinese AND Jewish AND Martian AND anyone else you can think of) get upset with ANIMAL black people (not ALL black people) who have no regard for anyone but their useless selves when they are wreaking havoc on a community and making the lives of decent people miserable? Why am I not allowed to get upset about these animals without being called a racist??? I am NOT a racist. If these were animal WHITE people I would be just as upset with them! The majority of the crimes in West Philly are being committed by animal BLACK people - whether the DP identifies them properly or not. I am sure there is an occasional animal WHITE (or Chinese or Jewish or Islamic or Martian or whatever) person that commits a crime, but we all know that 90% of these are from animal BLACK people. And I am upset. But I am NOT upset with all black people. How come people can't understand this? And by the way, "Just a thoughts" suggestion that Black Leaders in the area should become more involved is a good one. Facts are Facts - and don't call me a racist because of it!

It's amazing that you figured out what I meant by saying that 50% of the population is committing 95% of the crime. That was really a tough one. But I want to give you a hint; I never said it was a direct science. You, in your infinite wisdom immediately attempted to figure out the real numbers involved. A typical intellectual mistake on your part. No one is blaming "all" African Americans for crime. That is what you're saying. What I am saying is that there are just too many African Americans involved in criminal activity. If you want to bury your head in the sand you go ahead and do it. Also, your Christian/tall criminal/hoodie reasoning is UNreasonable and ridiculous at best. Nice try! Wake up Jon! They can't live with themselves but they want to live with us. tsk tsk tsk. Just a thought

Rip - obviously as a community we're more likely to be concerned with crime against our students than we are with crime against non-affiliated individuals. That being said, keep in mind that while many "young black males" are being shot, the vast majority of crime--particularly violent crime--on campus is being carried out by "young black males" as well (look at the stats). Rip, listen up

I just had a thought. Why are 50% of the population of this city committing 95 % of the crime? Why are black people killing each other at alarming rates? What is wrong with black people when they can't live with themselves but want to live with others? And when others don't want to live near or with them, why do they get angry? Lastly, how much crime would there be in this city if it was say, 90% white? Can someone in the black community please help? Can someone in the black community please do something for these kids who are out all night creating mayhem? Black people, wake up! We want you to live next to us. Please stop acting so wild and aggressive all the time. If you want to be respected, you must respect others first. Just a thought

We will have to disagree on this one. On a final note, could someone tell me how this guy afforded a 90k+ car and a mink coat by robbing penn kids? I mean, i know many penn kids are rich, but they don't carry THAT much money and there haven't been THAT many robberies. The burglary? if he stole 90k+ i feel that you'd know more about that. So my guess is that you're implying drugs. If you're going to take the stance that drug dealers deserve to be shot, why not start with all the ones that are students at penn? Sounds ridiculous huh? Finally, if this was the guy robbing penn students, you'd have heard about that too. I'm not defending the guys crimes. But he was caught for them and the justice system is working on him. So make war on the justice department if you don't like criminal treatment. "anyone knows who commits just about ALL of these crimes in W. Philly and if being pissed off about it makes us racist, well, that's too bad." it is too bad. I feel sorry for you. Hatred and bigotry gets you nowhere fast. Also, blaming all blacks for the actions of a few means that your ignorance is more than sad, its appalling. You want to know how one becomes independently wealthy? Close your eyes on locust walk spin around, point, and open you eyes to ask the person you're pointing at. Trust me, guns have nothing to do with it. Was this guy independently wealthy? I don't know. Like i said i'm not defending his actions whatever they may be. But i will speak out for someone who is being condemned by those without knowledge of the situation. "let he who is without sin..." you my friend, a certainly not without. p

You know what P - we're just going to have to disagree on this one - I apologize if you believe me to be a racist, but I can understand how you would feel that way....as frustrated as you seem that I am prejudging this guy I am as frustrated that you are defending him...anyone knows who commits just about ALL of these crimes in W. Philly and if being pissed off about it makes us racist, well, that's too bad. This guy was in jail more than out it seems (or would have been had they decided to keep him there). You tell me how he managed to become independently wealthy - with the gun he had no permit for or as partners with his friend, the other victim, who had a similar rap sheet? Please..... And yes I would feel the same way if he was white and I really don't care if you believe me. no way

Its not about giving him the benefit of the doubt. He was shot in an attempted robbery. That makes him a victim. Fine don't give him the benefit of the doubt, but you should certainly keep your mouth shut about that which you know nothing about - like how he afforded his car and coat. Contrary to what you imply, you know nothing about how he got the car and coat. You know things about criminal acts he committed but nothing about the car and the coat other than that it was expensive. ps, just to continue with examples, beanie siegal, felony gun charges, but i bet he could afford the car and coat - just sayin, there are legal ways for a black man to have an expensive car and coat. You say that it'd be the same if he was white, but i'd put money on your at least allowing the possibility that he was independently wealthy. p

Hey Rip, this is a Penn student newspaper. If If you want local community news, read something else. Though I do think the DP is terrible in reporting relevant facts and providing insightful opinions, newspapers commissioned for Philadelphia are ultimately the only legitimate news source for surrounding community. Personally, I would not even rely on the DP for Penn-related news. Just compare the average DP news story to what Princeton and Harvard student papers report--the differences are startling. Penn Alum, PhD Student Cambridge, MA amangla007@hotmail.com

with a rap sheet like that one there is absolutely no way that guy gets the benefit of the doubt - and i wouldn't give it to him if he was white either. Give me a break. its not like he a previous record for shoplifting as a teenager..... no way

Ok so i've been reading responses like "Victims?" for days. A couple of notes: Driving a nice car with a mink coat coming from an event while black (we'll call this DNCMCCEWB) IS NOT A CRIME! Getting shot for doing this MAKES A PERSON A VICTIM REGARDLESS OF CRIMINAL RECORD! There has not been any evidence presented showing that the VICTIM used illegally obtained funds to purchase the car and coat - well unless being black and out late at night with expensive things is evidence. Oh and if you think it is, then you are in fact a bigot and your opinion on the matter isn't worth much. The VICTIM could be a fashion mogul, a rapper, etc. Such professions don't require a clean rap sheet and yet provide a lot of money to the individual. The point isn't that he was one of those things, nor is it how likely it is that he is one. Rather, the point is that the men ARE VICTIMS. Their crimes will be charged a court of law. They deserve to be shot as much as you or i. Its disgraceful how they are being referred to in this comments section. I hear there are some counties in alabama that would still welcome some of you. I just hope i never come into contact with you. I read the poverty-crime post a few days ago. What I gleaned from it is not what people have been attacking. The whole "culture of poverty" issue is not an excuse for criminal actions. Rather, it is an issue that, if addressed, could reduce crime in the future. No one is making excuses for people who have committed crimes. I don't think people are suggesting leniency for criminals with poverty stricken backgrounds. However, what is so wrong with with trying to address factors that contribute to a higher crime rate? Attempting to stop crime before it happens is a shared goal right? why do people jump all over suggestions for pre-emptive action? p

At Penn, crime is only real when Penn students get hit. Over 300 people, mostly young black men, have been killed last year here. A lot of that took place a few blocks from here. But it only matters when the scary stuff affects the ruling class. Rip, reader Philly

Why even bother having surveillance cams if they're not of good enough quality to see a suspect? Seems like a waste of time and money if they're just recording fuzzy ghosts with no means of IDing them. Jason, Student

How the hell does society let these "victims" purchase mink coats and mercedes roadsters? Is it their terrific credit? How the hell do they get away with it? The fact that the one (Barett) useless piece of shit was out on bail speaks volumes about the system. Is it because there is no where to hold them? How is someone with that record out on the streets at all? The whole thing disgusts me. Cops should be suspicious and check individuals driving mercedes roadsters dressed in mink coats at 2:45am in the morning. - I don't care if it is racial profiling - to f------ bad. Pull them over and ask them what the hell they're doing. It's like they're asking people to be racist. That is not the way I was raised, but I find myself second guessing every day. Don't tell me that 80% (at least if not more) of this crap isn't from "victims" like these...... I hope they blow each other away...seems like the only way we'll ever get rid of them. And stop with the raised poor / turn criminal crap.... many of us had difficult situations growing up - not just "victims" like these. Bill Cosby had it right when he pissed off the NAACP and others. He is embarrassed and I don't blame him. I have respect for anyone who makes an effort to improve their lives without bitching and blaming society - white or black. I have, and never will have respect for punks like these "victims" who just ignore laws and make lives miserable for everyone else. If that makes me a racist - so be it. Victims?