Yes, but was my buddy Bert injured? (Check the back of the photo.) Ernie Sesame Street

What a mess, for the second year in a row. The venue should have been warned that 500 drinking college kids were going to show up. The event was disorganized- people lined up at the doors were then moved to another door, and then not allowed in that door. I am never going to World Cafe again, I am ashamed of the Penn Police, and I feel awful for axo. Upset

its a pretty blatant lie by the police to say that half the crowd was unruly. the only unruly people there were the bouncers and police. Tim

let's face it, if they let people in as they showed up rather than allowing a mass of 500 kids to gather outside to wait, this would have never happened. there was no organization whatsoever at the venue, and no attempt to even create some semblance of a line. and there's no way anyone should be blaming the police. they tried several times to peacefully move the crowd from the doors. some kids thought it would be cool to start a ruckus. the cops did what they had to do. bottom line. blame the venue

First: Kudos to Toby Hicks, the photographer, who took a great shot-- nice work dude. That must have been a bitch to get. Second: What the hell is Bert doing there? Ernie, can you shed some light on this? Third: WTF?! This is the third time in four years I've heard of Penn students being beaten. I wasn't there, but does anybody who was there have more information? Was the action of the police justified? Who has the 411? Z, Student Penn dazambra@sas.upenn.edu

great way to end domestic violence dad

The cops did not "do what they had to do." I saw them screaming at a guy who was ALREADY WALKING to keep walking; he was on his cell phone trying to figure out what happened to his friend who got arrested. Then a bike cop pushed the kid up against the wall so he COULD NOT walk. Two officers were screaming at the kid and he didn't know why; he was trying to talk on his cell phone while leaving the venue. Regardless, the cops punched him and arrested him too. Ridiculous

there were 100s and 100s of white kids and they find the only photo of a black guy fighting a cop? that's impressive student

Where are the police when students are being mugged and pistol-whipped practically on campus? Yes, it was a poorly organized event, and the venue's employees handled it extremely poorly. There is no excuse for the police to beat students who are tripping over themselves to get out of the way. According to eyewitness accounts, this was no instance of 250 crazed Ivy Leaguers going wild and getting violent. It was a crush of people who were unable to relocate as quickly and effectively as they wanted. Has anyone tried to organize and relocate a group of 500 with ineffective communication and no organization? Causing a brawl is not the solution, and this should not be tolerated by the University community. Recent Alum

People need to know what actually happened. The event was terribly disorganized, shuffling the student from 3 different entrances. I do not understand why as when people were in the alley they were calm and in single file lines, yet we had to move again to an uncontrolled exit door. I was the second person in line and we waited there for 30 minutes without anyone being let in. At this point the bouncer realized yelling at a crowd of well over 500 people will not work and began shoving me repeatedly into the person behind me as I couldn't move anywhere. Then, from nowhere, a drunk, but entirely placid, crowd was assaulted on two fronts by police and bouncers swinging at everything close. I saw students assaulted for doing nothing more than trying to walk away. The police should focus more of their efforts on preventing pistol-whippings and robberies on 40th street than blatantly attacking students on 30th street. john

The photo is of one of the bouncers who was the only person other than the cops committing assault. I'm glad the picture is of the guilty guy who hit me instead of some 100's and 100's of innocent Penn kids. john

student: it's because he's a bouncer, not because he's black. But don't worry, if they had shown pictures of the criminals from other crimes last night, they'd all be black... such as the three black kids who robbed Varsity Pizza. That's the crime trend in this area, it's just a statistical fact, not racism. And in the cops' defense, when there are 500 drunk people, they have to establish authority immediately to avoid an all-out war. This usually means roughing up a few people so that the rest of the crowd gets scared and leaves. It may not seem to us like the best way to handle things, but if a few people are unruly, they have to treat the whole crowd as such to avoid a major escalation that could cost people their lives. Also, it was the Philly Police that escalated the situation, not UPPD. Penn student

12 cop cars? Not even close!! I was at the back of the line the whole time and just watched everything happen. I walked to the corner of 31st St. (the street people were lined up on) and I walked back to the riot area counting vehicles. There were 33 police vehicles from the corner to the door (Philly police, Penn police, undercover police). As I went up the stairs, I saw another two cars pull up at the end of the street, making the total 35. I was absolutely shocked when I go on the bridge and saw ten more cop vehicles, bringing the grand total to FORTY-FIVE vehicles plus one helicopter. I swear to you that that is no exaggeration. I was completely sober and literally walked by every car that I counted. Still in shock, honest truth

AXO is an intellectually and morally bankrupt organization. They have been "in charge" (if you could say that) of this event for years, and they still haven't learned how to warn their venues about crowd control. The fact that a bouncer at their chosen location had to be subdued by the cops last night further proves that they didn't do their job. They are the constant here, not World Cafe. This was as much of a fuck-up last year as this year at a different place. I think the University should kick this stupid sorority off campus for this. And by the way, Kyle Johnson is a Wharton senior with a job. Thanks for ruining his life AXO, and for fucking up his nomenclature DP. Conor Lamb, Student Chez 4009 Baltimore cjlamb@sas.upenn.edu

Nice to see that the Penn Police have plenty of time to beat up drunk greek brats on campus, while gangs of thugs continue to terrorize the Penn Campus with robberies and violence....Hmm, what seems wrong here? As a former west philly resident, I can tell you that spoiled drunk kids was the least of my worries, how bout laying the smack down on those who are ruining the once (somewhat) safe environment on this campus. Every other day someone gets mugged or beaten.....Way to go penn police!!!!!! wkid44, .... DC rwb4422@yahoo.com

To begin, Kyle Johnson's life could not have been ruined by AXO. He voluntarily agreed to be a part of BMOC. If the event is as bad as you claim (and as bad as would be necessary to ruin his life), then he must have had that same knowledge (since you live together I doubt you wouldn't have shared it with him) when he signed up. IF his life is ruined as a result of being in BMOC, it is no one's fault but his own (unless you didn't warn him - then its yours). Second, AXO could have "warned" World Cafe of what they are getting into. At the same time, AXO cannot be blamed for the conduct of non-affiliated persons and police. only the world cafe and its employees can be blamed for their conduct. Only the police can be blamed for theirs. And only students can be blamed for student conduct. AXO, while perhaps not doing enough to stop such shananagans, cannot be responsible for what drunk students, abusive bouncers, and violent police do, no matter the history of the event. Did AXO encourage such events? NO Did AXO actively enable them to happen? NO Did AXO participate? NO So remind me how they are responsible? settle down

Conor, You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about. As someone who was involved last year with BMOC, I know that the proper precautions were taken this year and last year to ensure that nothing like this would happen. Both venues were told that there would be 1000 people attending this event. Both years the venues said they were capable of handling this type of crowd. What people are forgetting is that the purpose of this event is to raise money for charity. Why would a sorority put any students in jeopardy when the only thing they are trying to do is raise money for "Women Against Abuse". The only people who have any financial interests in this event are the people in charge of the venue. When "BMOC" takes place, the bar/club makes thousands of dollars. Now I cannot speak on behalf of the venues but one has to imagine that their sole interest in this event is making money. The only thing AXO did wrong was raising money for a charity while trying to show the students a good time. anonymous

To respond to the two people who have answered my comment, AXO is responsible for the event, and thus they bear the "responsibility" (quotes there to "remind" one poster of how they're responsible). More importantly, AXO and the World Cafe defrauded hundreds of people out of thousands of dollars last night. Yes, it goes to a good cause - I don't think anyone would argue that it doesn't. The fact that it was gained dishonestly is the problem. If people knew their tickets didn't guarantee them even a chance of getting into the event, they probably wouldn't have bought them. Regardless of whose fault it was that the World Cafe went crazy and couldn't handle a not-out-of-the-question crowd of 500, AXO should bear the brunt of the blame until they refund people's money and issue a public apology for the event that bore their name. By the way, when I write something, I have the courage to sign my name. Conor cjlamb@sas.upenn.edu

Where do I file my complaint? You can obtain and file a complaint form at any Police District, City Hall or the Internal Affairs Division at 7790 Dungan Road, Philadelphia, Pa. 19111. You may also download a complaint form via the Internet: http://www.ppdonline.org/hq_misconduct2.php Beaster

between the Marbar incident and the BMOC assault last night, the cops have proved their incompetence and bitterness towards penn students. don't hate us because we make more money than you; you CHOSE to be a cop. i am NOT saying that it is ok to have an unruly crowd and i am NOT saying that it is ok to defy the law of underage drinking, but come one, try a little exercise called PRIORITIZING . . . why dont the three police forces buddy up and make it safe for our females to walk home from FROGRO at 9pm without getting PUNCHED IN THE FACE! and the irony of this coming in the same DP issue as the cops admitting to robberies being up 300% from this time last year. do your fucking job, and remember that your motto is "To Protect and Serve." "To Protect and Serve"

Unless someone of high authority addresses recent threads on this site, the police, Rush and Dr. Gutmann will continue to get what may or may not be unjustified criticism..... I have become so tired of reading about all of the muggings and pistol whippings and what appears to be the ineptitude of the university and the police to improve the situation, yet I do the old "benefit of the doubt" thing and try and rationalize that, hey, West Philly is an urban place with a significantly diverse population that mixes educated middle to upper-class students with cretins who claim to have never gotten a break in life, thus justifying their right to run around beating and robbing people. Do these "cretins" ever ask themselves how kids from the same background as themselves have also managed to get into a school like Penn. Not every student attending Penn comes from money. A growing number just worked hard to better themselves and have been able to utilize a financial system that enables them to better themselves even more by attending a great university. These kids are not out pistol whipping and robbing people. This is why I have no sympathy for these poor deprived individuals who are a disgrace to humankind everywhere. If there is a will, there is a way. Sorry if I babbled off a bit...... what really upsets me, and again, unless some "higher up" wants to try and justify it with some kind of an explanation, what the HELL are 33 cop cars doing here to begin with. (can anyone from the university or police confirm that there weren't that many?) Where IS all this manpower when all of these real crimes are being committed? My God, it almost seems like the police have a vendetta against the snobby college kids. NO ONE ever addresses these things in the DP. Unless someone does, then no one should complain about the misinterpretation of what kind of efforts are being made to better the situation by the university and the Penn police. I for one would much rather read about a cop beating the crap out of one of the cretins lurking around waiting to pounce on their next victim. College kids are not angels - they like to have a good time and make mistakes in the process. but they certainly are not the real criminals around West Philly. Cops will say "it was a safety issue". Go after the organizers, don't beat on the kids. Go after the cretins. Don't beat on the kids. Issue some kid of a response...an explanation...because unless you do, you will continue to draw negative responses all around. This story was depressing because it sounded like a good night with a good cause was ruined because of poor planning. It was disgusting because it made the cops look like bullies against kids who just wanted to relax and have a good time. Use the clubs on the cretins. I'd love to read that.....and unless you're going to step up and address an increasingly disturbing crime trend where we can all read what you plan to do.....sorry, I'm babbling again. I get that way when I get frustrated.... EXPLANATIONS NEEDED

Being responsible for the event and being responsible for the actions of those attending the event, the venue staff at the event, and the police brutality are two VERY DIFFERENT things. just sayin just sayin

Two positive? things may come out of this spectacle: 1) Reports of police brutality so far do not seem to be indicative of racial profiling. Could this response have been appropriately race-neutral? 2) It seems like this event is developing a reputation for presenting a problem to the hosting venue. The World Cafe Live obviously won't touch it again with a 10 foot pole, and other potential sites may think twice. Hopefully the organizers will be forced to do more work next time around to line up a suitable venue now that the event's reputation is solidifying. james, alum philly

( . )( . ) 1) Before you post a comment please read the other postings. The Philadelphia Police were the ones beating kids with billy clubs not those "rookie beyotch" Penn Police. 2) The DP needs to give Conor Lamb a column. 3) While everyone agrees that World Cafe pulled a huge party foul by having a "everyone should just take 5 steps back" policy, AXO should still assume some of the responsibility. I know I will never see my $10, but I would like a written apology. Philadelphia Eagles 2005-2006 Leeeeeroy Jenkins

Connor and others, you have no idea what you are talking about. The event was well organized by Alpha Chi. The site was chosen for its large foyer, able to keep the crowd inside. Alpha Chi was told by management that the FRONT door would be the entrance. Because the previous event ran overtime, the entrance was changed to a side alley with no inner lobby to contain the crowd. This was done by WORLD CAFE over the objections of Alpha Chi. Check your facts before writing damaging information. The management of the CAFE was at fault. Because they are dealing with students, they think they can get away with this. People like you are allowing them to. adult who works at World Cafe, adult philly