To Dalton eats it: You went to school with him how long ago? I have known him ever since he moved to Hong Kong, and I can say that he was ashamed of what happened at his previous school and make a genuine effort to become a better person, which he accomplished. If you want to go around saying these sort of things, at least give your name. William Mounce Cornell `05 hkis `01 William Mounce

Here we go. The poor? little students have their high priced attorneys saying it was just a prank. They will be told they have been very, very bad boys and that will be the end. staffer, employee

These students are nothing but spoiled brats who think the law does not apply to them. Penn undergrads might be book smart, but they are street stupid and have trouble functioning and surviving in the real world, where they are accountable for their actions. Mature Adult

The whole situation has been blown out of proportion. The junior staff of the Daily Pennsylvanian, a student run organization, is just dying to get that internship with the NY Times. They are sensationalizing this story and putting in jeopardy the reputation of five people. They being a student organization should stand up to protect the right and privacy of students. Simon, Investment Banking NYC

Hey, Mature Adult, live up to your title and don't preach to other people about how to live their lives. I learned that a good sign of maturity is that you're not self-righteous about your own virtues and don't deride others who are less sophisticated. Usually "mature" people are whimps. I'll square off with you any day. Oh yeah? Philly

Frat frolic? That attorney needs his head examined and his client should be permanently expelled from Penn. Michael Kearney Michael.Kearney.WG64@Wharton.UPenn.edu

Mature Adult - I just graduated from Penn and I am very street smart and I dont go getting myself into situations where I am getting mugged, or getting arrested. Don't make generalizations - that isn't a "mature adult" thing to do. Penn students are diverse - the actions of 5 drunk kids no matter how severe, does not in any way indicate the personalities of the school as a whole. Grow up. Penn '02 Recent Grad Washington, DC

All this proves is that Dalton is a terrible school. Paying 23,000 a year so your little boy can come to an Ivy League school and get kicked out in three months, what a waste! Let's Go Dutchmen! Dutchman, Wall Street Tycoon 78th and Broadway

Just when it seemed that Penn had arisen to its highest level of recognition and prestige, (despite its chronic institutional identity problems revealed in the "Puck Frinceton" and the prep/public school discussion) in all the time - that at least _ I have been aware of it. This incident, especially if it does find it way onto the national media, I'm afraid may undo much of the respect Penn has won for itself over the years. steve orbach, C72 NJ steveorbach1@aol.com

True that. Dalton's only in NYC's Ivy League for sports competition -- not anything academic. And they can't even do that right -- isn't their football team 0-8? Collegiate doesn't even have a football team and we're tied with Dalton. And all your other sports suck, as does your school in general. Collegiate is what makes the city proud. 1628. Word. Another Dutchman

frat prank? Are they crazy? If Brantl was beaten by these thugs in a dark alley and not in the 'safe' confines of Penn, it would be taken far more seriously. This is aggravated assault all the way, it doesn't and shouldn't matter that it happened on campus. I hope they all get convicted and thrown out of school. And also, Dalton sucks. Go Trinity. Yale '01 Wash, DC

DP: IVY TABLOID I have to agree with those that argue that the DP is being way too biased with this issue. There is one statement in today«s "STAFF EDITORIAL" that particularly pissed me off: "And a significant portion of Penn's student body has already made up its mind about the incident, calling it "disgusting" and calling for the expulsion of the alleged perpetrators" It should read "And the entire DP staff has already made up its mind about the ... " The article where the DP staff went and interviewed "friends" of these kids is completely screwed up from a journalistic point of view. Who knows what the underlying reason for the "friends«" opinions were. Maybe the negative comments from the hallmates came because one of the kids plays music all night every night at a loud volume. It is irresponsible to give random people the opportunity to anonymously make statements about the accused kids« characters, personalities, etc... they might have an underlying agenda and these statements clearly mark an impression on the readers (even the Associated Press might copy/paste this garbage again and reach millions of readers) Stop feeding the hype and focus on more important issues. JUST THE FACTS PLEASE, Powerbroker / Rainmaker FL

I must have missed class the day they explained the "frat prank" defense in law school. Is the standard for that, "It shall be an affirmative defense to conduct that would otherwise be considered criminal if it can be proven that the conduct occurred by multiple individuals associated with and in furtherance of a fraternity of other underground fraternity-like society and all offending members of such organization agree that they were 'just fucking around'." If they can prove they were drunk, is the "frat prank" defense even more bulletproof? bill

Of course everyone is presumed innocent until proven otherwise. However, should these "students" be found guilty, the most severe penalty should be imposed. They will have brought disgrace to a great university and potential harm to campus guests. Penn Alumnus, Government Pittsburgh

It probably shouldn't take an incident like this to show people that ivy leaguers & undergrads, in general, have a different set of rules than most of the community. The question is...will this ever change? below it all, pharmer of ceuticals de

I'm incredibly dissapointed with the dialogue that has sprung up around this event. Rather than discussing facts, namely, the fact that this happened on our campus, people have resorted to name-calling, private-public school feuds and Penn-bashing. If anything--it is the discourse and NOT the event itself that embarasses our community the most. This could have happened anywhere. I'm sad to find that while we are unarguably one of the best educational institutions in the world, people can't even talk intelligently about this. Even alumni (who presumably are more mature due to age) have resorted to bashing Dalton. Pathetic. Moreover, I'm dissapointed in the DP, in its handling of the issue. Honestly, what does the fact that Thomas Bispham quit Mask and Wig have to do with this? It throws in absolutely unrelated events to tarnish his character. These students are on trial for conduct--not character. It's as if Bispham were Mersault in Albert Camus' The Stranger and he is being convicted of murder on the grounds that he went swimming with a girlfriend the day after his mother died. (not implying anyone should be convicted) This whole thing is just absurd. If anything, it saddens me that I have come to such a snobby and immature school. Jenny Suen, Student University of Pennsylvania

Not to change the subject, but Penn's basketball team really sucks this year, huh? I mean c'mon, I knew we sucked, but we're the suckiest bunch of sucks that ever sucked. Clownshoe, Finance Philly

I agree with the earlier poster --this story has been oversensationalized by the DP and blown out of proportion by everyone else. I am not defending the actions of the accused, however, it is not like they doused the Princeton kids in gasoline and then lit a match. It was motor oil for godsake -- certainly this substance isn't toxic and not even flammable! Instead of assuming that the accused were too stupid to realize this, why not think that perhaps they did realize that motor oil was not flammable and were just trying to scare the Princeton kids. What if they had poured beer on Brantl instead of motor oil? Would people still be reacting like this? No! Again, I don't condone anything they did. They should have to pay for the property they damaged and maybe some compensatory money for emotional damage of the Princeton kid. And they should have to do community service, or something to that effect... but jail?! expulsion?! Give me a break... A Penn Student

I agreee, they blow. By the way, anyone know where I can get a good cheesesteak on Penn's campus?? Hup. Peanutbutter Pontz, Food Services Philly

I know really, Penn can slam dunk motor oil on innocent kid, but they sure as heck can't get the ball to go in the basket. They just need to quit. Way to go Nova Girls. Beat Penn women last night as well. Go Cats! Mike Ievers, Investment Banker Ardmore

yeah, but how about the football team, eh? sg

There was a linebacker a few years ago, I think her wore #50. He was hot!! Opps! Santa Pole, Kickin Ass Albany

poor hochfelder. i'm sick of the self-righteousness. this is about scape-goating. worse, the dp is trying to make entertainment out of it like it's, uh, j. lo and ben or some shit. sg

Who peed on the seat again? Phantom Pisser, Nada Philly

Well, Jenny, if you're dissatisfied, there's always transferring to Penn State. Good luck in finding a half-way decent school where there are no self-promoting sharks who are full of themselves, and don't hesitate to go after their rivals. Chuck Raballio rabal77@hotmail.com