Grads from College earn six-figure salaries

It's a common belief at Penn.

If you want to make money, go to Wharton. Don't waste your time in the College.

In an effort to dispel this myth, the College of Arts and Sciences recently published a brochure entitled Careers and a Liberal Education. The 25-page brochure showcases the value, figuratively and monetarily, of a liberal arts education at Penn.

Interviews with successful Penn graduates from a variety of years, such as 1979 graduate and NBC News Correspondent Ron Allen, are interspersed with graphs and charts analyzing data from a 2001 survey of members of the classes of 1986 and 1987. Fifteen years after these College students graduated, their median salary is $112,000 and their mean salary is $164,000.

"College deans and faculty are a little bit reluctant to talk about careers and salaries because that's not what we're really about," College Dean Richard Beeman said. "But I wanted to give students the reassurance to make the most of their four years at Penn and to concentrate on what they love. If you do that, the career thing will take care of itself."

Since the College purposely does not offer an education designed to train people for specific careers, some students wonder what the connection is between their liberal arts education and what they plan to do to earn a living.

In addition to the financial data, the College interviewed a range of Penn graduates for the brochure. The goal was to illustrate that students who complete their undergraduate work in the College are not limited to careers as teachers, writers or scientists, but rather are equipped to succeed in many fields.

The 10 College alums profiled are men and women of all ages, and represent a diverse collection of careers. Each person's occupation, graduation date, major, favorite class, student activities and current activities are listed along with a full page picture and a short biography.

One of the messages of the brochure is to follow one's passion and do what one loves -- like 1992 graduate Katherine Grant Walker did.

The actress may be better known by her stage name, Kate Jennings Grant. She was an English major at Penn and says her favorite classes were modern poetry with Al Filreis and Shakespeare with Margreta DeGrazia.

Nearly 10 years after graduating, Grant has had roles on Broadway, off Broadway and on television programs including Law and Order and Sex and the City.

"You will be most successful following your passion," Grant says in the brochure. "Get the best education in a subject that excites you, and you will never have to worry about making a living."

Every five years since members of the classes of 1986 and 1987 graduated, Career Services has surveyed them to stay informed about what kinds of graduate programs and careers Penn alums pursue.

"Penn is very interesting in that, for the vast majority of College graduates every year, their choice is to go to work rather than graduate school," Associate Director of Career Services Peggy Curchack said.

While 20 to 30 percent enter graduate school immediately after graduation, 85 percent had received a graduate degree within 10 years of graduating from Penn. The most popular graduate programs for College students are law and medical schools.

After law and medicine, the profession employing the largest percentage of College graduates is financial services. Ten percent of college graduates are in this field and earn a median salary of $300,000 and a mean salary of $471,462.

"If you want access to the most interesting work in the world, get a liberal arts degree," Curchack said. "The brochure is the evidence for this because it tells the truth about the choices people made. They present an immense range of choice, from actress to teacher to banker. That breadth is an outcome of studying liberal arts."

However, Beeman said the College will not send each student a copy of the high quality publication for fear that it will only end up buried underneath piles of mail or in the trash can. Students can pick up a copy in the College office, but Beeman said he will be aggressive in distributing the booklet to parents.

"Every day, we see parents putting a lot of pressure on their children to major in something 'practical' so they can get 'the right job,'" Beeman said. "We believe that advice is wrong.

"What is needed is critical intelligence and basic learning and communication skills," he added. "We really do believe that these are skills that, for people who work at it, the world is completely open to them."

Comments (24)

let's be honest here. unless you're pre-med or PPE, the college is a joke. i know kids who get away with doing literally absolutely nothing and still have 3.3s. you just can't do that in wharton. all those poly sci, comm. and SARS majors in SAS are dead weight, wharton carries this school. wharton

Apparently you don't realize that PPE actually IS a combination of poli sci and 2 other disciplines, which you refer to as "dead weight". furthermore, i know people who DEFINITELY skate by in wharton and still have decent GPA's, so don't try to make yourself feel better by insulting the students of the college. college student

That's funny Mr. Wharton. I found that all of my wharton classes where the ones I could breeze through. All that you need to know is how to bullshit a professor. The exams were always cake, and the presentations are a joke. You make people laugh, you get an A. All this coming from a 2000 wharton grad. Would you believe it. You sometimes actually have to have intellectual discussion in other classes. Maybe you should have taken some higher up math classes. Or were you one of those kids who failed out of those. funny

how can an alum get a copy of this publication? howard, alum

Seriously, do you think we would be ranked as high as we are in US News if it weren't for Wharton. Wait, I have to go study for my Comm class, it's a real killer... ha! wharton

Do you think Wharton UNDERGRADS (not MBA...the real steward of Wharton prestige) would be even a little bit useful in this world if there was no College? How would Wharton's USNEWS ranking be if all their classes were Business classes? Do you think Business undergraduate curriculum gains any respect? Besides Penn, which high caliber schools offer undergrad business? I wonder why. The point: College grads are free to pursue a Business career track and are overwhelmingly successful, given a mean income of 400K. But, naturally, a College education leads to a greater variety of fields and to more fulfilling knowledge. What the report did not say, because it does not want to antagonize anybody, is that the difference in Median income between College Grads and Wharton grads are negligible. Goldman Sachs New York, NY

please concede the fact that college (whether wharton or SAS) is what you make of it. success is a function of drive and intelligence. it doesn't matter what school you come from out of Penn. get off your wharton high horse. everything you learned in wharton undergrad, i learned in my first year of work. PPE major, global asset management firm boston msg@sas.upenn.edu

i love watching college kids get so defensive. i'm just kidding about all of this. i mean, c'mon, we all go/went to penn, it's a great school. the only thing that really really irked me when i was a wharton undergrad was that there seemed to be so many SAS kids who A) i don't know how they got admitted in the first place and B) didn't do a lick of work. You just don't see that as much in Wharton (or Princeton or Yale for that matter). Of course, those kids are the exception, not the rule. Go Quakers. wharton

I disagree that all Wharton people are smart and I am in Wharton myself. Some people who get recruited to come here or who are legacy have a better chance to be in Wharton if they get to choose their school. So there are dumb people here across the schools. That being said, I do feel that Wharton is more demanding than the college and that even though we are undergrads, the name Wharton carries us further than the name Penn does in the job search wharton student

Be proud of your education; but drop the conceit. After graduation in many ways you will be reshuffled with grads from other fine schools(some not so fine and some down right worthless). However if you present yourself as some elitist, arrogant fool; there are plenty of bright, well intentioned people unemployed or even worse jockeying a fax machine or some other useless office task. At that point no one will care whether or not you went to the college or Wharton; you'll just be the really smart guy who really has a sh*tty job. And by the way I love Penn and have a lot of respect for Wharton(I am not a Whartonite; as you can see because this passage wasn't written in bulletin format); but for all you whartonite undergrads please if you do nothing else........take a deep breath. Read a book(there is a lot of interesting material out there that is not in BULKPACK form) soak it in; there is a lot of time to worry about how you are going to make your fortune. Life isn't short, its long. Take some time to enjoy your youth.... before you commit all of your energies to become that self-centered, shallow bore that you were trained to become once you entered Wharton. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Good luck! Patrick, Alum

the average gpa of a wharton student is 3.3. you want to know why? because the curve is centered on a b+. hard work my ass. you can be average and have a respectable gpa. most of wharton is athletes anyways. Daniels dan@upenn.edu

Wharton is a JOKE. I had two majors and a minor in the College, and a minor in Wharton, and my W. classes were the easiest ones at Penn. Apparently, the only skill you need to get a Wharton degree is knowing how to open PowerPoint on the classroom computer. Besides, if Wharton was so hard, why would all the athletes be there? NYC Alum

And where are all the engineers in this discussion? Oh yeah, were're studying...getting a real education, rather than fighting over a petty article. go engineering seas@seas.upenn.edu

Did any of you college students take OPIM 101? If you did and still say all Wharton classes are a joke, go to Princeton. wharton student

The bottom line is that UPENN and all of its school are great and well respected. True Wharton is harder academically, harder to get into, and has a better reputation but that shouldnt make college students feel bad. I am a college alum and am damn proud. College Alum, Banker New York

I graduated from both the College and Wharton. For those college kids that say that Wharton is all about Powerpoint - maybe you were taking too many Management classes where Teamwork and leadership were the words of the day. People in Wharton know that the real smart kids are Finance or Accounting concentrations - try taking Security Analysis, Spec Markets, or upper level accounting as I did. Wharton taught me skills to succeed. The College, while less competitive and stressful than the college still has its merits. I looked forward to my college classes in the same way I used to look forward to recess in junior high. Go college! Wharton and College Grad NY

I'd like to make two points while trying to avoid being labelled a Whartonite who thinks the college is a joke: The median for Wharton classes is NOT centered around a B+ but rather a B- which would indicate a 2.7. Now does every teacher follow that? Doubtful, especially once you are past all the intro classes. However, the grades certainly don't center around a 3.3. NYC Alum, I truly believe, and I may be wrong, that the biggest reason athletes are in Wharton is because of the cache' it provides after graduation. A coach can tell a high school recruit, look, I can't offer you a scholarship like Eastern State, but I can get your daughter or son into Wharton, and when they graduate, the starting salary is X. Is the college an inferior school? No way. Do math majors (just to pick one out of the air) do things I couldn't have dreamed of doing intellectually and also financially (once they sell out to Wall St.)? Sure. But I really think you're nuts if you believe Wharton doesn't carry around SOME level of mystique to the masses. This, may well have to do with the fact that people mix up Wharton Grad with Wharton UG or the fact that when you say Wharton as opposed to Penn, no one will ask you "which campus?". I know it has nothing to do with the College being inferior, but whatever the cause, it's almost certainly true that it carries a better rep. I can't believe I'm doing this noneed@nowhere.com

A word of advice to the current Penn undergrads. I've been out in the world now for nearly 20 years since my graduation from Penn -- arguable the happiest and most liberal time in my life -- a conclusion most of you will come to when you finally leave school. So cherish the moment, and cherish Penn for you will never again be in the mass company of such a diverse and intellectually high-powered group of peers ever again. And I'm happy to say that soon my daughter will be joining our ranks in the class of 2006! Please try to keep from divisiveness within the ranks of the school -- it's bad enough to get razzed by the Princetons and Yales of the world. You don't need to turn on each other for it leads to further morale problems and weakened pride in Penn. We're all in it together. Always identify yourself aa a Penn student, and not the specific school you're in. Be proud! I feel I can speak to both sides of the story, as I was a dual-degree student in both the College and Wharton. There's good and bad in both. Wharton got me through doors and gave me an initial leg up on business matters -- I acknowledge that. However, once that was achieved, it was my broad liberal arts perspective which allowed me to flourish, develop friendships and networks, and frankly make me a damned good conversationalist and leader. Ultimately this was most helpful in my long-term career and personal life. I encourage all Wharton undergrads to take advantage of the uniqueness of Penn, and enroll in as many liberal arts courses as possible. You won't regret it when you're someday in a business meeting in Europe or Asia, and blow a deal when you can't intelligently discuss literature or philosophy over cocktails. You don't want to be branded as an American boob and be dismissed -- only to have the deal go to a Yalie or Princetonian (and believe me they'll always be there) who will excel at matters of culture. Please keep a balanced perspective on your education and seize every intellectual opportunity at your disposal, for this is a rare and golden world you find yourselves in. I'm a loyal alum, and every year I interview many Penn candidates for my Fortune 500 company. As an executive VP in Finance, I make hiring decisions for our analyst and manager pool. So many of the pure Wharton undergrads Penn sends me falter during my interviews since I like to discuss matters outside of business. Believe me, when we select you to interview, it's already assumed you're intelligent enough to do the work (and learn it, if you don't have a formal business background). We look for a good fit and potential leadership material. However, I must admit, I usually will give a nod to the Wharton candidate who is polished and accomplished outside of the business arena. This something I urge all of you to pay attention to. If it were true that pure business skills are all that Fortune 500 companies seek -- then every position would be filled by Wharton grads. However, you will learn through you're career that this is not the case. You will have colleagues from other fine schools with no formal business programs on either equal or advanced footing than you. You will find people at the I-Banks, Ad Agencies, and Manufacturing firms who've never had a lick of business education doing the same jobs as you are, and excelling at them as well. Don't be surprised to find yourself in a recruiting class filled with kids from other schools like Harvard or a Stanford who were History majors or Lit majors and, guess what, landed the same position as you did! These kids will look at you funny and scratch their heads, for they've attained the same level you did, but received a more liberal educational experience. But watch out for these kids -- they always do well. Business is a skill for which you can easily be trained. It's the other intangible "people skills" which lead to further advancement. So do your best to soak in every kind of intellectual challenge you can find at Penn! In the end, remember that you will be University of Pennsylvania alum -- and carry your head high! There's great prestige in that -- and keeps our close-knit alumni community together in the face of an ever-competitive professional environment. Fortune 500 Alum

Do people really fight this much on campus? I knew there would be some trash talking here and there, but I thought it was all harmless. Like sibling rivalries--you're mean to each other at times, but when it really counts there's no one you're more loyal to. And Fortune 500 Alum, you had some great advice. I was wavering between taking some classes at the College and having more concentrations in Wharton, and I'm leaning toward the College now. wharton 06'er Seattle ekalpha1@attbi.com

hey all, I agree with the general consensus presented here. I think the College and Wharton are both great in their unique ways- the College is simply unparalleled in terms of the breadth of curriculum- it may have some easy classes, but it also has the toughest- Abstract Algebra, Advanced Physical Chemistry, etc. I don't think anyone short of the professors teaching these subjects would find them easy. Wharton is very strong in its own right. Outside of Economics, Biology and Chemistry, the College tends not force curve classes to the degree that Wharton does. As such, Wharton classes can be quite high-pressured, even when the material is not conceptually difficult. I haven't taken Securities Analysis but I did take Speculative Markets and the course is without a doubt, competitive and challenging. However, if you really want to know how to price financial derivatives you need a graduate degree in physics or mathematics (stochastic processes, etc.). So bottom line, there is value to what everyone does here, including the scholars who study ancient languages. . . think about how boring the world would be if everyone did the same thing. College 02 another College student college@sas.upenn.edu

I take issue with the statement that Wharton is tougher academically. The College has some really smart people, especially in math and the hard sciences. I got a 1540 on the SAT (one try) and my two other College roommates scored a 1510 and a 1490, respectively. We're all graduating this year with average GPAs. PENN is a demanding school, and it's not easy to do well here without considerable studying- no matter what school or department you're in. Pennjamin Franklin penn@penn.com

I am a college graduate who took endless shit from my Wharton buddies about being a loser and such. I was a pre-med chemistry major and graduated with a 3.7 GPA. In junior year I realized I did not want to be a doctor, but by that point it was too late to transfer to Wharton. I took econ 1 and 2, OPIM, corp finance, accounting 1 and 2, public finance and stat (1,2, and econometrics). I can honestly say that although the course material was not as tough as Chemistry, the classes were hyper-competitive and the grading curves were cut-throat. All of you who say Wharton classes are a joke are woefully misguided. I am glad I did not go to Wharton, as the regimen is way too structured and intellectual debate in general is not encouraged. I am now a junk bond PM and am doing very well. Even though most people in Wharton think they are smarter and better than "College Brats", this is a load of crap. They have no clue what the "real world" is all about, and it really comes down to individual drive and perseverence. Take heart folk lore majors, your day will come....... bg

I COMPLETELY agree with "go engineering." It is by far the most difficult of the schools. Every non-engineering major just rolls his eyes or turns his head when he hears just the names of my classes. You might want to say that I am the type of person that is good at engineering type things and you guys in the College and Wharton aren't, which I have heard a lot. However, I am getting a minor in the college (unrelated to science and math) and it IS easy compared to engineering. I never study, at all. I spend about a half hour a week on homework (per class), and I have a straight A average, in the college. You can't tell me that the College isn't easier than engineering. Also, the methods learned in engineering (and those 6 hour long labs...) will be preparing me with real life problem solving skills and thinking strategies that employers love--even outside of the field of engineering. Not even Wharton does that. SEAS

Warning to those spending their parent's life savings for a Penn liberal arts degree. A college degree from Penn is total bullshit. It will not give you a competitive edge in the real world, I repeat it will NOT give you a competitive edge in the real world. Wharton, is the only school at Penn where you might have a real future after you graduate. Other than Wharton its the Engineering school. If you get a degree from the college prepare for a life of suffering. You just might have to move to some socialist country in Europe just to survive. All that bullshit you are learning in your liberal arts classes won't add up to shit in the jungle they call the corporate United States. So unless you want to be on public assistance in Canada or Europe, you better get some real degree. I am not kidding. Joe

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